Jingsamichty

"Me Too" is focussing on the victim... "I was groped"

Perhaps it would be better to have done "You Too", focussing on the perpetrator. "Harvey Weinstein groped me", or "My science teacher Mr. John Smith groped me". Name and shame. Without naming the perpetrator it returns it all to the victim.

bats

And what's wrong with focusing on the victim?
The number of women who admit to being assaulted in some way gives a clear indication of the size of the problem.

It's hard to name names.

You need proof
Your word against theirs
Men in positions of authority
Your job might be on the line
You might be blamed
You might think it was you fault
You'll be told not to make a fuss
It's just men, it's their way
Get over it Dear, no lasting harm was done
It was only a touch
A grope
A pinch
A catcall
A whistle
A comment on your body and what they want to do with to it.
You'll be accused of being spiteful, ruining a man's life
Any more?

Danny B

You'll end up like Bryan Singer's accuser and get sentenced to 2yrs in jail....

BristolUK

Tom Jones says “what’s tried on women is tried on men as well”

Shard

Him too?

Pretty Flowers

So it's my fault that you said what you said... riiight....

Unsurprisingly I can't remember what I said when I first joined here. It was more than 12 years ago after all. Irrespective of what I said, I certainly did not say "I'm short and I have large boobs, please take the piss out of me when we meet in real life."

DBD33, I think that you at least would have agency for the words that you say. I did not put them in your mouth, nor did I force you to say them. You and you alone are responsible for your behaviour. I assume from this, you consider rape acceptable in cases where the victim is wearing revealing clothing. Presumably like them I was asking for it.

dbd33

I don`t recall the specifics of any real life conversation from that time either, I accept that I may have said something offensive and apologize for doing so.

Posts are different though, those are still there.

You said, on Feb 27th 2006:

“Wow! You'd think you guys have never seen a pair of norks before!”

I thought Souvy came up with this expression but it seems to have been yours:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/canad...-357945/page2/

That seems to have been a bantering thread, I suppose actual conversation would have been in that vein.

You may assume anything you like, it don`t make it so.

bats

I've read the post you linked. I read the breast comments were started by Butch, then Spicy and you joined in. PF made two comments trying to stop you all.

moneypenny20

Those saying don't play the victim card or don't be the victim are missing the point of #metoo. It's to bring the subject out into the open. It's reminding the world that it's not one or two harmless gropes, one or two sniggers about the size of someone's tits or junk, one or two 'superiors' abusing their 'subordinates'. It's endemic across the board no matter who you are, what you are, how much money you earn or what sex you are.

No one has made #metoo female but too many men who have suffered some form of abuse are still too ashamed/hostile/embarrassed to admit that what happened to them was wrong. More men (and women) need to #metoo without adding the disclaimer 'it meant nothing' or 'get over it' or justifying it at all.

All humans need to learn and remember that they have no right to abuse/manipulate/embarrass others for their own amusement/power/advancement.

Siouxie

https://qz.com/1105615/metoo-the-mov...lack-activist/

It's morphed from being a phrase used survivor to survivor amongst underpriviledged women.
It was and always has been about females, rather than males.
Twitter:

Males have their own twitter stream after being told they couldn't post to the #metoo twitter threads by countless women. #Metoomen

DandNHill

It has happened to me more times than I can remember... I take it partly as being in contact with men... although it doesn't make it all right.

I think to sum up the many occasions it has happened to me I will tell you about my experience working for a manufacturing company, a very male dominated environment.

During the 2 1/2 years I worked there I was asked if I was going to "wear that skirt again" by several of the factory workers. I was asked to page "Mike Hunt" over the tannoy...think about it!!!!

Coming from the factory workers I could kind of accept but coming from management not so much:
The production director once commented that I was wearing capris that were probably quick to take off. When I said to the MD one day in his office "Peter I have something to show you" he responded with "quick close the door and the blinds"! He also took me to visit a client and on the way back to the office he told me how his wife didn't understand him and took me on a detour of the South Downs... while driving he said he wasn't sure how he would react if a woman offered himself to him. When I asked him where we were going he realised nothing was going to happen and drove back to the office. I truly believe he wanted a quicky in the back of his car!

This type of harassment didn't stop until one day I told my direct boss, the manufacturing manager, that I was getting tired of it. He never told me what exactly happened but I believe he convened a meeting with the two directors and splellt out that they were leaving themselves wide open to accusations of sexual harassment... it all stopped that day and life went back to normal.

scilly

This is almost exactly what I was thinking of posting!

Like I think everyone else on here ........... I do know men who were abused as boys or young men by older men and by women.

And I also know women who were abused as girls or teenagers by other women.

It is too endemic, too widespread, and too accepted by too many people ....... often under the guise "oh, it's all in fun".

raindropsandroses

#metoo, many times on pretty much every degree of the harrassment/rape spectrum. The thing is, its OK to identify as a victim, these things are thing which are done to people against their will - the cup of tea analogy is often quoted but accurate, I think.
I used to volunteer for Rape Crisis's equivalent in the country I lived in at the time, and almost without fail victims would blame themselves, be it for walking down that alley at night, "leading" someone on, wearing that skirt or heaven forbid just having anatomy that draws unwanted and unacceptable attention.

Campaigns like #metoo help victims and other to have the strength to come forwards, it removes the "taboo" of talking about it and accepting that it happened and was horrific, and was in no way the victim's fault.

For me knowing that others had gone through similar helped me to stop feeling like it was this horrific secret to hide and that it anyone found out they would think I was "broken" or dirty somehow. I'm not sure if that makes sense as I haven't had coffee yet but it made all the difference to me, I went from feeling broken to being able to accept and acknowledge that some seriously cr@p things happened to me but that it didn't change who I was or make me anything I wasn't before.

raindropsandroses

Hit post too soon.

I also think that it should be for everyone, there is too much emphasis on women being victims and I think it makes it so much harder for the men who've suffered too.

It works both ways, I wouldn't ever make comments about penis size or anything else derogatory or as banter about men, and I don't like casual sexism either, the "oh he's a typical man then!" stuff isn't OK in my book.

In our house comments on physical appearance are banned, we are trying to teach our preschooler that it isn't OK to pass comment on people, and that you are you, regardless of your gender.
Our son often gets mistaken for being a girl as he's very pretty in an Orlando Bloom kind of way, if that makes sense, and his hair is kind of bob length. I'm always being told I should cut his hair short so everyone knows he's a boy, but he loves his hair longer and doesn't care about being mistaken for a girl. What kind of message does that send though? That from an early age he should change his appearance to suit others?
I won't be cutting his hair, but the thing that bothers me most is that random strangers still think they should be able to dictate what his does with his body, they think its OK to try and impress their ideas and their will over his own body autonomy (and some of them are very insistent about getting his hair cut), and that has much wider and more sinister connotations.
Throughout all areas of society there seems to run this undercurrent of its ok to try to dictate what others do with their bodies, that impressing your will and trying to control other's bodily autonomy is ok. Kids are conditioned to use their bodies to make other happy, regardless of their own feelings, things like "give Auntie Maud a kiss goodbye, she'll be sad if she doesn't get her kiss". That kind of stuff blurs the lines and makes it more difficult for kids to say no and speak up about unwanted attention, even into adulthood imho.

I think we have a long way to go before "my body my choice" really is the accepted norm, and when (if) it is perhaps that will go a long way towards helping #metoo.

DandNHill

I agree with a lot of what you say.

My only comment is about your sons hair.
You say he is a preschooler and that he likes his hair long.
My guessing is if you cut it short he'd like it too... I think maybe that you are projecting your opinion on him. As young parents we do that...

How old is he?