Oink

I thought a rejection of central planning, bureaucratic decision-making structures and the monopoly of power was good thing?

Shard

It depends on what those central planning structures do. If they standardise trade regulation so that you can have integrated supply chains across 28 countries or make cross border scientific research more feasible, that's not bad thing. I think many take for granted the international fluidity (amongst EU nations) that has been built up over the decades, and don't appreciate the enormous pointless bureaucracy that will be reintroduced if we leave. It's an unnecessary step backwards on the basis of illusory gains.

Jingsamichty

Interestingly, I have not met one single European person who is of the opinion that the UK will be better/stronger/more competitive/a better neighbour as a result of Brexit. In Europe there is an almost universal opinion that the UK has made a catastrophic ****up by listening to lunatics and liars like Farage and Johnson.

Yorkiechef

Well the vote has been cast and counted and democracy dictates we now leave, the country has been in difficult situations before and will again, so we should accept the decision and make the most of what we have now and work for a better UK, even if this means short term pain. Division with the nay Sayers continuing their pointless path does the country a disservice. Those that disagreed with the BREXIT decision need to get over themselves, those old enough to remember the lost vote to leave in the seventies had little choice but move on. Perhaps in 20 or 30 years we might join again, likely with promises of endless riches....if the EU survives!

BristolUK

Nigel Farage is on record prior to the referendum as saying if the vote was 52-48 for remain, he would push for a second referendum as it would be "unfinished business"

With the same margin the other way, why should remainers get over themselves and accept what Farage said he wouldn't?

Shard

I hate this line of argument. In the 70s the vote was to be part of something it was progressive; now it's dismantling something, which other nations are only to keen to replicate. The vote was wafer thin and based on both poor and misleading information. I think there is huge rationale for a second vote. Brexit people don't want it, because they know they will lose. It's easy to say give it another 20-30 years, but that will impact a generation and change the nature of the country. Brexit would not be the end of Britain, but if it is to happen it should happen for the right reasons and on an informed vote.

Oink

Devolution of power rather than consolidation of power is a better for human agency.

MarkG

'Vote again and again until you get it right' - it's the EU way.

But I still think Britain will be the last country to leave the EU, because they'll still be arguing over Brexit terms when all the other countries have just walked out.

Oink

Not when we've got the Brexit Bulldog over there kicking ass and taking names.

Yorkiechef

Since when has NF been an authority on anything?

MarkG

Bingo. The future is decentralized, and the EU is a dinosaur that believes it can keep those pesky mammals from taking over even as the dark clouds of asteroid ash come rolling over the horizon.

I mean, seriously: in a world of VR, 3D printers and basement bioengineering, what's the benefit of being told what to do by people thousands of miles away? Why would anyone want that, unless they're a power-crazed politico who expects to be the one who's telling other people what to do?

We're racing towards a time of change that will make the early years of the Industrial Revolution look like the Teddy Bear's Picnic. Big states are rapidly going to become big liabilities.

Yorkiechef

When the vote was cast to join ( before my time ) was it based on the current status quo? I don't think so.....time to move on chum.

BristolUK

Well, he did play just a little bit of a role in Brexit although that might just be a rumour.

Are you saying he's an idiot? That might explain a lot.

Yorkiechef

I'm saying its a done deal, time to move on, unite, whatever. The dog is dead....shall we get another dog in the future....perhaps, but let's leave it awhile. For now it's just us alone, we shall keep the lead and the memories, the dog basket and the travel cage...just in case. Throw the food, the bowl, perhaps a cat next time?

Shard

One proper vote would suffice.