Shard

That's a fairly specific situation, but to answer your question I do think anyone and everyone has responsibility to inform the "Muslim bloke" about the error of his ways. However, the point is that many Muslims are less likely to do so, as it may have an impact on them personally (if "Muslim bloke" is particularly obsessed).

scrubbedexpat098

I agree with you entirely, but it's not restricted to religion, the same could be said of any group whether it be family or proffessional. Religion is just a convenient scapegoat and all the while the spotlight is on it, we're failing to understand the root cause of mans inhumanity to man, which is money and power IMO

Novocastrian

Power has been around ever since the psychosis of religions emerged in the primitive human brain, money came along very much later, but is related to power of course.

What you're failing to understand is the root cause of the widespread lack of inhumanity in the vast majority of modern humans, even women <gasp> is a result of social evolution and a slow, gradual, continuing process of climbing out of the mud of primitive subjectivism.

scrubbedexpat098

I don't think I'm failing to understand anything to be honest, although I suppose this a very subjective topic. Some say the modern world is freeing itself from the yoke of religion and making the world a better place, some say that the current civilisation will be the last, as we're systematically ****ing everything up. I lean towards the latter to be honest, and not because of religious belief, I have none. Not being all 'end of the world' ish but how we can say the world is better since the retreat of religion, I can't see it. My apologies if I'm talking more bollocks than usual, it's friday arvo here and I'm enjoying the Nags Head immensely. Have a good weekend everyone

Jericho79

In Western countries at least, women have rights protected by law which allows them equal treatment to men. The subjugation of women beforehand (and some would argue this is an ongoing battle) was entirely brought on, and encouraged, by religion- particularly Christianity/Judaism/Islam.

Same can be said for gay rights- you are seeing huge strides being made in recent years, despite "religion" fighting bitterly against it.

Slavery- same thing. Slavery is allowed and encouraged if you read the bible- thankfully, we came to our senses.

So, whilst there's still lots of improvements to be made, I suggest you take another look if you cannot see that the world is a better place now that the shackles of religion are being taken off.

scrubbedexpat098

Right so 'better place' means 'better place for people' I was talking generally

Sally Redux

Better place for what, then?

Are you thinking along the lines of religion stops scientific progress, and so is better for the ecology of the planet?

scrubbedexpat098

Better place in general means exactly that doesn't it?

I'm no Luddite, but even you have to admit that there is some weight in that argument.

Sally Redux

Animistic religions tend to be the ones stressing that kind of aspect.

Interestingly, in the US it seems to be the religious right who are most in favour of policies destructive to the environment.

Jericho79

No, because "better" is entirely subjective.
Better in whose opinion?

scrubbedexpat098

Never heard the term animistic religion, but it seems that you're saying that anything with religion as a suffix is null and void in the valid opinion stakes, it might not be what you're saying but it's how it comes across to me

so this idea that the world is better now that religion seems to be on its way is subjective also, yet passed off as fact by many. Don't get me wrong, the womens rights, gay rights etc are great, but that doesn't mean that it's great for everyone and everything, far from it. The world is most certainly not a better place in my opinion, and it's got nothing to do with religion at all.

Shard

Why not?

Novocastrian

If that is actually true, I think you should gracefully withdraw from this discussion while you still have chance of preserving a modicum of respect.

Edit: Oh, perhaps my bad. Were you perhaps saying that animism isn't a religion? If so, would you perhaps accept that, while animism is more rational than religions based on a supernatural precept, neither can stand in the presence of scientific rationalism?

scrubbedexpat098

why do you think it is?

Alan2005

Well, the moon is a better place isn't it. Wait, you mean for people?... I was talking about moon rocks.