Creationists
Jun 15th 2014, 3:20 am
#32
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Jun 15th 2014, 3:20 am
#33
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 440
Re: Creationists
So, I'm guessing that everyone who posted on this thread is either atheist or at least agnostic (but not agnostic theist). Speaking of Pascal's wager, I think that most creationists are really only creationists because they fear going to hell on the off chance it really exists.
Here's an analogy. Suppose somebody holds a gun to your head, asks you if the sky is green (semantically the same color as an ordinary tree leaf) and threatens to shoot you if you don't believe it is. Would you play along and 'believe' that the sky is green (despite the evidence that it isn't), or would you object? Most of us would probably do the former.
Now imagine there's a religion like Christianity that threatens you with something many orders of magnitude worse. The only difference is in this case, it's inherently unknowable whether or not this god exists and would do such a thing (strong agnostic standpoint). Most Christians are just ordinary people who have been forced to comply with the demands of someone who probably doesn't even exist. In fear of these potentially imaginary repercussions, they actively repel any sense of logic or critical thinking that they know will undermine their belief in their deity.
The thing about Pascal's wager is that it totally fails when there are multiple religions out there threatening you with the exact same thing. Pointing this fact out to them really helps many of them escape this world of delusional thinking.
Here's an analogy. Suppose somebody holds a gun to your head, asks you if the sky is green (semantically the same color as an ordinary tree leaf) and threatens to shoot you if you don't believe it is. Would you play along and 'believe' that the sky is green (despite the evidence that it isn't), or would you object? Most of us would probably do the former.
Now imagine there's a religion like Christianity that threatens you with something many orders of magnitude worse. The only difference is in this case, it's inherently unknowable whether or not this god exists and would do such a thing (strong agnostic standpoint). Most Christians are just ordinary people who have been forced to comply with the demands of someone who probably doesn't even exist. In fear of these potentially imaginary repercussions, they actively repel any sense of logic or critical thinking that they know will undermine their belief in their deity.
The thing about Pascal's wager is that it totally fails when there are multiple religions out there threatening you with the exact same thing. Pointing this fact out to them really helps many of them escape this world of delusional thinking.
Jun 15th 2014, 3:24 am
#35
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: Creationists
So, I'm guessing that everyone who posted on this thread is either atheist or at least agnostic (but not agnostic theist). Speaking of Pascal's wager, I think that most creationists are really only creationists because they fear going to hell on the off chance it really exists.
Here's an analogy. Suppose somebody holds a gun to your head, asks you if the sky is green (semantically the same color as an ordinary tree leaf) and threatens to shoot you if you don't believe it is. Would you play along and 'believe' that the sky is green (despite the evidence that it isn't), or would you object? Most of us would probably do the former.
Now imagine there's a religion like Christianity that threatens you with something many orders of magnitude worse. The only difference is in this case, it's inherently unknowable whether or not this god exists and would do such a thing (strong agnostic standpoint). Most Christians are just ordinary people who have been forced to comply with the demands of someone who probably doesn't even exist. In fear of these potentially imaginary repercussions, they actively repel any sense of logic or critical thinking that they know will undermine their belief in their deity.
The thing about Pascal's wager is that it totally fails when there are multiple religions out there threatening you with the exact same thing. Pointing this fact out to them really helps many of them escape this world of delusional thinking.
Here's an analogy. Suppose somebody holds a gun to your head, asks you if the sky is green (semantically the same color as an ordinary tree leaf) and threatens to shoot you if you don't believe it is. Would you play along and 'believe' that the sky is green (despite the evidence that it isn't), or would you object? Most of us would probably do the former.
Now imagine there's a religion like Christianity that threatens you with something many orders of magnitude worse. The only difference is in this case, it's inherently unknowable whether or not this god exists and would do such a thing (strong agnostic standpoint). Most Christians are just ordinary people who have been forced to comply with the demands of someone who probably doesn't even exist. In fear of these potentially imaginary repercussions, they actively repel any sense of logic or critical thinking that they know will undermine their belief in their deity.
The thing about Pascal's wager is that it totally fails when there are multiple religions out there threatening you with the exact same thing. Pointing this fact out to them really helps many of them escape this world of delusional thinking.
Jun 15th 2014, 3:39 am
#37
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Jun 15th 2014, 3:47 am
#39
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 440
Re: Creationists
Actually, I'm not over-analyzing. I went to a super-religious Catholic junior-senior high school. Whenever you make valid arguments against Christianity, they use Pascal's wager as a last resort to convince you to believe in their religion.
I know this because I used to be super-religious out of fear of going to hell. Six years in a Catholic school made me go from being an agnostic to being somewhat of a religious wingnut. As soon as I learned more about other religions (and even more about science), my beliefs began to lean more towards agnostic theism and later pragmatic agnostic atheism. Personally, I KNOW that there's no such thing as an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent, all-intelligent god. Any god that does exist would be missing at least one of these qualities in my opinion. I just don't need to force myself to believe in this religion out of fear anymore since I now have more knowledge about science, history, other theologies than I had previously known.
I know this because I used to be super-religious out of fear of going to hell. Six years in a Catholic school made me go from being an agnostic to being somewhat of a religious wingnut. As soon as I learned more about other religions (and even more about science), my beliefs began to lean more towards agnostic theism and later pragmatic agnostic atheism. Personally, I KNOW that there's no such thing as an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent, all-intelligent god. Any god that does exist would be missing at least one of these qualities in my opinion. I just don't need to force myself to believe in this religion out of fear anymore since I now have more knowledge about science, history, other theologies than I had previously known.
Last edited by bc_guy; Jun 15th 2014 at 3:49 am.
Jun 15th 2014, 6:55 am
#40
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Creationists
Actually, I'm not over-analyzing. I went to a super-religious Catholic junior-senior high school. Whenever you make valid arguments against Christianity, they use Pascal's wager as a last resort to convince you to believe in their religion.
I know this because I used to be super-religious out of fear of going to hell. Six years in a Catholic school made me go from being an agnostic to being somewhat of a religious wingnut. As soon as I learned more about other religions (and even more about science), my beliefs began to lean more towards agnostic theism and later pragmatic agnostic atheism. Personally, I KNOW that there's no such thing as an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent, all-intelligent god. Any god that does exist would be missing at least one of these qualities in my opinion. I just don't need to force myself to believe in this religion out of fear anymore since I now have more knowledge about science, history, other theologies than I had previously known.
I know this because I used to be super-religious out of fear of going to hell. Six years in a Catholic school made me go from being an agnostic to being somewhat of a religious wingnut. As soon as I learned more about other religions (and even more about science), my beliefs began to lean more towards agnostic theism and later pragmatic agnostic atheism. Personally, I KNOW that there's no such thing as an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent, all-intelligent god. Any god that does exist would be missing at least one of these qualities in my opinion. I just don't need to force myself to believe in this religion out of fear anymore since I now have more knowledge about science, history, other theologies than I had previously known.
Jun 15th 2014, 1:50 pm
#41
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,740
Re: Creationists
I know some people who support Tottenham. Totally irrational and absolutely barmy, but I can still speak to them !
Jun 15th 2014, 3:25 pm
#42
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 440
Re: Creationists
On the off chance there really is a god, then I don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be and therefore, it's not worthy of worship. Either this god is powerless to fix the numerous ongoing ills of the world, or it's apathetic and doesn't care (or might possibly be evil). Or maybe it's just not a very intelligent god for designing a universe that runs this way. With the advent of modern science, creationism and many of the myths in the bible can now be safely written off as absolutely preposterous. If there is a god, it sure isn't this one.
Jun 15th 2014, 3:38 pm
#43
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Creationists
Assume that there's a scale from 0 to 100 where zero represents total theism (total belief in god) and 100 represents total atheism. All intermediate values represent the varying degrees of agnosticism (pure agnosticism, agnostic theism and agnostic atheism). My belief, which is pragmatic agnostic atheism basically gets a score of 99.99. I'm as good as an atheist since I don't believe there's a god, but since there's really no way of knowing for sure if I'm right or not, I'm still open to the possibility that I might be wrong. Only new evidence in the future can change my mind, if there is any. It's how science works, we consider all possibilities and never hold on to any one theory with absolute 100% certainty.
On the off chance there really is a god, then I don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be and therefore, it's not worthy of worship. Either this god is powerless to fix the numerous ongoing ills of the world, or it's apathetic and doesn't care (or might possibly be evil). Or maybe it's just not a very intelligent god for designing a universe that runs this way. With the advent of modern science, creationism and many of the myths in the bible can now be safely written off as absolutely preposterous. If there is a god, it sure isn't this one.
On the off chance there really is a god, then I don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be and therefore, it's not worthy of worship. Either this god is powerless to fix the numerous ongoing ills of the world, or it's apathetic and doesn't care (or might possibly be evil). Or maybe it's just not a very intelligent god for designing a universe that runs this way. With the advent of modern science, creationism and many of the myths in the bible can now be safely written off as absolutely preposterous. If there is a god, it sure isn't this one.
Jun 15th 2014, 4:12 pm
#44
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Creationists
Where is God even supposed to live? "Up in the sky" doesn't work any more. I saw an item on TV where a guy actually believed he had located Hell under a crack in a glacier, because funny groaning noises were coming from it 
Jun 15th 2014, 4:17 pm
#45
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Creationists
The claim I find most preposterous is the omniscience. You couldn't make it up
oops, sorry it already has. 