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Old Nov 17th 2017, 6:41 pm   #31
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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None of them are prepared for the technological steamroller that's rattling down the road toward them.
From Saskatoon?
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 6:47 pm   #32
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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One politician, who had no integrity at all, managed the reverse trick.
Her first name began with M.
Agreed, and she did it by recognising that individuals, as well as politicians, were adicted to greed.

The 'right to buy' at ridiculous discounts removed, at a stroke, the ability of local authorities to offer affordable social housing to those who needed it and who could turn down such a tempting offer?

And Sid, remember him? Who could resist buying shares in a company that they already owned because they knew they could make money on it and if you couldn't afford to buy then hard luck.

She exploited greed to break up what cohesion was left in the country and exemplified this in her speach "And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours." And the people looked after themselves first, and if you had a little she left you with nothing.

And I voted for her because I realised that the Callaghan government had been a disaster and something had to change and I probably voted for Blair in much the same frame of mind, guess it was all my fault. I note that similar arguments have been used by others in support of Corbyn.

Plus ca change......

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Old Nov 17th 2017, 8:19 pm   #33
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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There is something not quite right about this original story. The lady tragically was found dead in her flat supposedly due to freezing because she couldn't afford to heat the home when her children were at school. It was between 10 and 13 degrees in Runcorn on the day she died, is that cold enough to kill you if you don't have the heat on between 8am and 4pm?
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It certainly occurred to me that it was a bit early to be that cold.

But she's described as having severe medical issues including depression and an eating disorder. In and out of hospital in intensive care. Benefits cut/stopped numerous times so battle after battle. Housing taking her to court so likely a threat to accommodation as well as income.

If she's not well nourished that might be enough on its own.

State of the accommodation might be a factor too.
I wondered about all of the above too

It happens in Canada too. And in other 1st world countries as well, I’m sure.

“Hidden” poverty has been a problem in the UK (for example) for longer than I’ve been alive, and I have cogent personal memories of it, no matter which political party was in power.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 8:25 pm   #34
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What makes little sense is forcing the poor to pay higher rates for electricity (through meter systems) than those who can afford it. Totally perverse. I think I read there are now moves to change this. Hope so. Heating, like water, should be a human right.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 8:42 pm   #35
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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It happens in Canada too. And in other 1st world countries as well, I’m sure...

A couple of years ago I remember reading of an old woman who lived out in the sticks in NB with no heating at all apart from a dangerous stove and how local people were helping her. I might even have posted it.

As I said earlier though, in Canada and some other countries they never had the systems to deal with this stuff in the first place.

The UK did (and still largely does) and is steadfastly dismantling it.

That woman out in the sticks might well have fallen through the cracks/off the radar, whatever, but once discovered the UK system would have helped. There would be various statutory duties of care that don't exist here.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 8:58 pm   #36
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As I said earlier though, in Canada and some other countries they never had the systems to deal with this stuff in the first place.

The UK did (and still largely does) and is steadfastly dismantling it.
Remind me again which party put these things in place and which party is steadfastly dismantlng them?

Yea, all politicians are the same. Thanks Rupert.

But you haven't won yet.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 9:16 pm   #37
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You do realize that the 'city financiers and foreign oligarchs' are among those who benefit the most from staying in the EU, right? Which, last I heard, was something Corbyn supported?

... The ordinary people of Britain voted to get out of the EU, but the politicians are desperate to keep them in.
Quite right they want to keep us in the EU because they know it's insanity to leave.

Ordinary people voted to get out because they were fed lie upon lie upon lie by despicable creatures like Boris Johnson who never thought so many people would believe him. Millionaire posh boys playing games, except this is for real.

Corbyn was never a EU supporter. A failing, if he had tried harder to galvanise Labour support, for example by highlighting EU investment in deprived areas that would never - and will never - come from Westminster, then we may not be in this dreadful mess.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 9:27 pm   #38
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Quite right they want to keep us in the EU because they know it's insanity to leave.

Ordinary people voted to get out because they were fed lie upon lie upon lie by despicable creatures like Boris Johnson who never thought so many people would believe him. Millionaire posh boys playing games, except this is for real.

Corbyn was never a EU supporter. A failing, if he had tried harder to galvanise Labour support, for example by highlighting EU investment in deprived areas that would never - and will never - come from Westminster, then we may not be in this dreadful mess.
Agreed. At the time the political class assumed that Remain would carry the day so we're fairly complacent.

Boris is the worst. He was on the fence totally undecided until he made his (political) mind up, then he started gunning for Brexit like a possessed John Redwood.

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Old Nov 17th 2017, 9:37 pm   #39
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Corbyn was never a EU supporter. A failing, if he had tried harder to galvanise Labour support, for example by highlighting EU investment in deprived areas that would never - and will never - come from Westminster, then we may not be in this dreadful mess.
Don't forget that until May's fatal call for an election this year, and the result of that, that Corbyn was under constant attack from the Blairite right wing of his own party.

It's only a few months ago, but people on all sides have moved on from that.

According to the beleaguered Tories, he's an existential threat (and I hate my self for misusing the term in the modern vernacular).

But now, the whole Tory/Brexit agenda is focussed on the premise that a Corbyn lead government would be ...well would be what? Bad for the 0.01%?

F**k them.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 9:46 pm   #40
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But now, the whole Tory/Brexit agenda is focussed on the premise that a Corbyn lead government would be ...well would be what? Bad for the 0.01%?

F**k them.
Vive la revolution!
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 11:11 pm   #41
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From Saskatoon?
Yep. It's a thing. Apparently they're using the daylights out of that synchrotron. Innovation 150 Special CLS Tours|canada 150|science|saskatoon
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Old Nov 18th 2017, 12:10 am   #42
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Yep. It's a thing. Apparently they're using the daylights out of that synchrotron. Innovation 150 Special CLS Tours|canada 150|science|saskatoon
Amazing, interesting, stuff. Alas, I'm not clever enough to see how it puts everyone out of a job.
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Old Nov 18th 2017, 12:15 am   #43
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Amazing, interesting, stuff. Alas, I'm not clever enough to see how it puts everyone out of a job.
You're from Mennonite country, and their wood-fired synchrotron simply won't be competitive, might as well admit it.
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Old Nov 18th 2017, 12:16 am   #44
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"And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."
You'll have to explain to me what the sensible alternative is?
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Old Nov 18th 2017, 4:50 am   #45
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You'll have to explain to me what the sensible alternative is?
It is difficult because people are by their nature selfish. What Thatcher was doing was to encourage a culture of state sponsored self with the inevitable results that we see today where the pay for some has reached absurd levels whilst those who support society by performing the more essential functions are paid less than some would say they are worth.

'Ah', I hear you say, 'It was ever thus and the UK isn't alone in this', and so it isn't but a more socially minded UK had seen some of these excesses held in check. Perhaps a sensible alternative would have been to have not encouraged personal greed at a state level while providing the means to fulfill it, human nature will do that all by itself.
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