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Old Nov 16th 2017, 8:58 pm   #16
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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It's not broken. Syria and Iraq are broken. I think the UK functions fairly well.
It's a bankrupt country which no longer has a national identity, that makes most of its money by selling houses to each other at ever-increasing prices, and where the 'best and brightest' have been leaving en masse for the last sixty years.

There's nothing you can do to fix that, other than wipe the slate clean and start over.

And that's before you take account of the massive technological changes that are going to happen in the next twenty years, which no government in the world has any idea how to handle. Certainly not a tired old socialist like Corbyn, whose entire philosophy is based in the industrial-era world that's disappearing right now.
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Old Nov 16th 2017, 9:04 pm   #17
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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A pony would be nice, too.

Simple fact is that no party has any way to fix the UK. It's far, far too broken for that. The idea that tossing May out and replacing her with Corbyn will lead to a magical, free-pony-for-all utopia is simply laughable.
Only an idiot would think that a Labour government would lead to instant utopia. But it might, MIGHT, just swing the pendulum back from the City financiers and fanatical Eurosceptics and foreign oligarchs just slightly in favour of the 50-odd other million people who live here.

Theresa May's government has done virtually nothing save try to deal with Brexit which was Cameron's failed attempt to deal with a Conservative Party schism. Exactly how is that serving the ordinary people of Britain?
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Old Nov 16th 2017, 9:12 pm   #18
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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Only an idiot would think that a Labour government would lead to instant utopia. But it might, MIGHT, just swing the pendulum back from the City financiers and fanatical Eurosceptics and foreign oligarchs just slightly in favour of the 50-odd other million people who live here.

Theresa May's government has done virtually nothing save try to deal with Brexit which was Cameron's failed attempt to deal with a Conservative Party schism. Exactly how is that serving the ordinary people of Britain?
No need to make the City, Eurosceptics or oligarchs scapegoats; its simply Conservative ideological intolerance of the poor.
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Old Nov 16th 2017, 9:31 pm   #19
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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No need to make the City, Eurosceptics or oligarchs scapegoats; its simply Conservative ideological intolerance of the poor.
Not even so much intolerance as incomprehension.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 1:14 am   #20
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Default Re: The country we left behind

There is something not quite right about this original story. The lady tragically was found dead in her flat supposedly due to freezing because she couldn't afford to heat the home when her children were at school. It was between 10 and 13 degrees in Runcorn on the day she died, is that cold enough to kill you if you don't have the heat on between 8am and 4pm?
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 1:33 am   #21
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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...The lady tragically was found dead in her flat supposedly due to freezing because she couldn't afford to heat the home when her children were at school. It was between 10 and 13 degrees in Runcorn on the day she died, is that cold enough to kill you...
It certainly occurred to me that it was a bit early to be that cold.

But she's described as having severe medical issues including depression and an eating disorder. In and out of hospital in intensive care. Benefits cut/stopped numerous times so battle after battle. Housing taking her to court so likely a threat to accommodation as well as income.

If she's not well nourished that might be enough on its own.

State of the accommodation might be a factor too.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 8:19 am   #22
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Default Re: The country we left behind

Agreed:

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Yes, and not soon enough.
For these reasons:

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It would be nice to see our political representatives enact compassionate and supportive public policies rather than the narrow instrumental and class riven cack we’ve become accustomed.
It's a sad state of affairs when people die because a man made economic system means there are people who haven't worked a day in their lives, born into oil wealth driving gold plated Ferraris around London. On the pavements of the very same streets walk people who need to go to food banks despite working full time.


I used to hate the thought of Corbyn, but I think the current political system is so detached from the plight of the common man that we need a wild card in there to shake things up.


I'm not a fool and so I recognise the limitations of the system, but the system is so devoid of equality that the system should change. It doesn't serve the masses, it serves the few.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 8:54 am   #23
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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Agreed:



For these reasons:



It's a sad state of affairs when people die because a man made economic system means there are people who haven't worked a day in their lives, born into oil wealth driving gold plated Ferraris around London. On the pavements of the very same streets walk people who need to go to food banks despite working full time.


I used to hate the thought of Corbyn, but I think the current political system is so detached from the plight of the common man that we need a wild card in there to shake things up.


I'm not a fool and so I recognise the limitations of the system, but the system is so devoid of equality that the system should change. It doesn't serve the masses, it serves the few.

I agree, I used to think Corbyn a bit of a joke, but I am seeing he is a man of compassion and great integrity, especially on nuclear disarmament, and think he would be an improvement on the current crowd.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 4:22 pm   #24
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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I agree, I used to think Corbyn a bit of a joke, but I am seeing he is a man of compassion and great integrity, especially on nuclear disarmament, and think he would be an improvement on the current crowd.
I agree that things need shaking up....the UK is not in good shape, but Corbyn? he may be a "wild" card too far...... compassionate maybe, but I think he is dangerously irresponsible.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 5:17 pm   #25
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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I agree, I used to think Corbyn a bit of a joke, but I am seeing he is a man of compassion and great integrity, especially on nuclear disarmament, and think he would be an improvement on the current crowd.
Cloud cuckoo land I'm afraid. If Corbyn and the labour party were elected today, nothing would change tomorrow. The thought that one politician, who may just may have a little integrity, could change the course of the commons from being self serving to one of compassion is ludicrous.

Remember labour leadership of the past, remember them preaching in Trafalgar Square and marching to Aldermaston proud to be members of CND, remember them in power? Does anyone remember them, even Michael Foot as a minister, getting rid of any nuclear weapons?

Politicians and civil servants alike do what's in the interests of politicians and civil servants and between them they've built up a cozy inertia that masquerades as the government. The rest of us are here to keep quiet and pay our taxes.. but don't be fooled by their rhetoric.. they're all the same.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 5:23 pm   #26
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Cloud cuckoo land I'm afraid. If Corbyn and the labour party were elected today, nothing would change tomorrow. The thought that one politician, who may just may have a little integrity, could change the course of the commons from being self serving to one of compassion is ludicrous.

Remember labour leadership of the past, remember them preaching in Trafalgar Square and marching to Aldermaston proud to be members of CND, remember them in power? Does anyone remember them, even Michael Foot as a minister, getting rid of any nuclear weapons?

Politicians and civil servants alike do what's in the interests of politicians and civil servants and between them they've built up a cozy inertia that masquerades as the government. The rest of us are here to keep quiet and pay our taxes.. but don't be fooled by their rhetoric.. they're all the same.
A very broad brush. Each government has its policies and initiative and things do change back and forth. Nobody expects things to change overnight. I trust you don't trouble yourself with voting, you'd be a fool to vote given your views.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 5:42 pm   #27
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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A very broad brush. Each government has its policies and initiative and things do change back and forth. Nobody expects things to change overnight. I trust you don't trouble yourself with voting, you'd be a fool to vote given your views.
When I lived in the UK I voted in every election, local and general. I voted for Thatcher and I voted for Blair and I was wrong to do so.

My personal involvement with MPs has instructed me how they exploit their supporters, ignore those who vote for them and follow the party whip even when it's patently disastrous to do so. They do this because on the whole they want to maintain their position on the greasy pole. I can think of very few politicians that I'd call statesmen, many that I'd call criminals and most that I'd call jelly. But I'm a realist, what's the alternative? Like most people I'm too honest to be a politician so we're stuck with what we've got and that's our fault because we recognise integrity when we see it and we laugh at it.

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Old Nov 17th 2017, 5:48 pm   #28
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Not even so much intolerance as incomprehension.
Not even incomprehension so much as complete indifference.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 5:52 pm   #29
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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Cloud cuckoo land I'm afraid. If Corbyn and the labour party were elected today, nothing would change tomorrow. The thought that one politician, who may just may have a little integrity, could change the course of the commons from being self serving to one of compassion is ludicrous.
One politician, who had no integrity at all, managed the reverse trick.

Her first name began with M.
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Old Nov 17th 2017, 6:30 pm   #30
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Default Re: The country we left behind

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Only an idiot would think that a Labour government would lead to instant utopia. But it might, MIGHT, just swing the pendulum back from the City financiers and fanatical Eurosceptics and foreign oligarchs just slightly in favour of the 50-odd other million people who live here.
You do realize that the 'city financiers and foreign oligarchs' are among those who benefit the most from staying in the EU, right? Which, last I heard, was something Corbyn supported?

Quote:
Theresa May's government has done virtually nothing save try to deal with Brexit which was Cameron's failed attempt to deal with a Conservative Party schism.
Well, yes. May is a total waste of space, as was Cameron.

But so is every other leader of every major political party in the UK. None of them are prepared for the technological steamroller that's rattling down the road toward them.

Quote:
Exactly how is that serving the ordinary people of Britain?
Exactly. The ordinary people of Britain voted to get out of the EU, but the politicians are desperate to keep them in.

But it really doesn't matter. Whether Tories, Labour, or Monster Raving Loonies win, it's only a question of how fast the whole thing collapses. And Britain will be a much better place after it splits into half a dozen nations.
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