mandymoochops

No no no don't go away - a forum is just that - a place for people to give their opinions. Mine is mine and yours is yours, we are both right in our own opinions (thats why they are our own!) and also free to give them.

Don't be offended, there was no harm meant - but it is an emotive subject to deal with and bringing up such will obviously cause friction!

Come on lets jump to the "a man called Susan thread" and talk about mens willys!

purple80

On my way!

Charlie

OnlineCB

Eve N

OK! I'm with you there,going over now,see you there
Thanks Mandy

Jay Bird

The fact that I live the way I do in no way makes me feel "holier than though" (in fact religion and anything "holy" don't have a place in my life), or better than anyone else........and I don't think for one minute you directed your comment specifically at me...........however, I do disagree with your last comment regarding accepting what is happening and shutting up. Children would still be sent up chimneys or into factories and down coal mines if it hadn't been for certain individuals campaigning against such things. The same has to be said for animal cruelty....organisations such as PETA, WWF, WSPA etc, etc, have done, and continue to do so much towards changing to way humans treat animals. There is a place in this world for compassion and kindness towards other species.........continuing research proves that animals feel pain, and have emotional lives. So no, I cannot just accept what happens and shut up.......fortunately there is a growing number of people who feel the same.

iaink

I hate this assumption that just because its men with sticks and the animals sometimes move for a while after they are killed that in some way its "cruel"

Its only the fact that our society isolates us from the way livestock animals are treated that makes people think that it is.

I dont have a problem with people "using" animals as long as they are treated with respect, you could argue that our exploiting other species is what separates us from the animals in the first place. And from what I have read the question of cruelty seems to be as much a knee jerk reaction to fact that this is going on out in the open in plain view, rather than safely behind abattoir doors.

This is a part of the culture and way of life of many people in the maritimes, and in many cases provides income that is necessary to keep the smaller communities viable, so in that respect Judy is perfectly correct.

I dont see any motivation for the hunters to be cruel, or any evidence that its cruel, other than the obviously striking visual images that jar with the nice sanitized life we now mostly lead. So Judy its right, it part of the landscape here, just like the fall Bambi bashing and the general hunting and fishing culture, so if you like Canada for other reasons, then you have to accept that it was basically only ever colonised by Europeans because it offered lots of interesting Furry mammals to kill and skin, and that in many parts of the country that still is part of the cultural tapestry.

Jay Bird

The seal hunt IS dreadfully cruel........the facts speak for themselves.
Please let's not be under any misapprehension about the reasons for the seal hunt.....it is for their fur. The meat is NOT used, the carcasses are usally left to rot on the ice. The method of killing is not humane........often they are shot from moving boats and are wounded first. The Canadian gob=vernment deducts a small amount of money for each bullet hole found, so often a wounded animal is left to suffer and die slowly.

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/p...ian_seal_hunt/

This is NOT a humane practice and cannot be condoned by any right thinking person. Just because something is "tradition" does not make it right.......I gave some examples of "tradition" in my previous post.

dbd33

I can't say I have a strong opinion on the fate of the seals but I wonder if your position on animals somehow relates to your not fitting in well with smalltown Ontario. Recreational animal cruelty is part of the fabric of small town life and I would think non-participation in hunting, fishing and eating the results would be a significant handicap.

iaink

Except as its for fur why would you shoot them and put holes in the pelt. Makes no sense...thats why they are clubbed...more chance of a decent pelt. No one ever said it was for meat (apart from the occasional newfie flipper pie), its entirely about money, just as it was in the case of the beaver 200, 300 years ago.

I dont recall if it was the organisation you are quoting or a different one that was caught bending the truth to suit its own fund raising ends as discussed in last years (or the year befores...I forget) heather mills related thread.

"In the Gulf of St. Lawrence, clubs and hakapiks are the killing implement of choice, and in the Front, guns are more widely used"

notice that "more widely used" does not equate to "often"

I contend that the fuss over the seal hunt is completely out of proportion with the harm, real or imagined, that is done (and Im sure that some seals do suffer). But its high profile, makes for striking images and liberates hundred of thousands of dollars from city dwelling bleeding heart liberals who are divorced from the reality of agriculture, and that is the real reason why it continues to be newsworthy year in year out. The bottom line is that a picture of seal blood on the ice raises a lot more money than picketing a horse processing plant in Alberta or Quebec.

Would the introduction of a more humaine and reliable way of killing the seals result in the press leaving this story alone? Personaly I dont think so, because its really not about that, its about a knee jerking wringing of hands about the awfull blood on the nice clean ice. Its hypocracy and nothing more for the (Im guessing) 99% of the naysayers who eat commercially produced meat.

Littletashy

I prefer Elephants and they're about to be culled in some place in africa and no one hears anything about that...there not going to be eaten or used for clothing,,just shot and killed, personnally I find that more barbaric than making seal pie and feeding/clothing the kids.
On a culling note they stopped a cull of starving Kangaroos in Canbarra Aus and they're already dying....It happens all the time for all sorts of reasons you just hear about the fluffy seals cos there fluffy!

Jay Bird

The possible bending of the truth happens all around us, but still does not detract from the simple truth that the seals are hunted for their fur and very little else. The shooting of them makes no sense.....agreed, but then cruelty to any animal makes no sense to me at all. I suppose the hunter takes the view that it's better to make some money than none at all. I certainly agree with your last comment regarding the emotive picture of the seal hunt and the horse processing plant, however I will never, ever accept that there is a good reason for cruelty and exploitation of ANY living creature, so Iguess we'll have to agree to disagree, as they say.

dbd33

It's covered heavily on the World Service. iirc the issues are:

- too many elephants leads to habitat destruction and potential starvation

- lack of international cooperation leads to the National Parks not being linked and so confined herds of elephants in some places and a shortage of elephants in others

Overall the isn't enough money to distribute and manage the elephants.

iaink

One thing I learned in academia is that its amazing how often researchers finds conclusions that support the views and aims of the people funding the research. Its human nature to show data in the light that best facilitates getting a new research grant when your contract is up (Aint I cynical ) Or in other words; "independent" researchers very seldom bite the hand that feeds them, and on the odd occasion that there is nothing "useful" to report, more often than not, nothing is reported.


An alternate way to look at this is that there are two views on offer;

• Its dreadfully cruel, our scientists say so
• Its not as cruel as it looks, our scientists say so

Obviously you cant have it both ways.

Are you going to believe the organisation that

• Stands to raise millions of dollars by publicising the hunt, while looking like the good guy
• Supports the hunt at a cost of millions to itself and endured endless international criticism as a result

Ask yourself who has most to gain by peddaling their party line?

hot wasabi peas

Or we can all hold hands and ask, "WWFSMD?"

bazzz

Serve them up on a sacrilicious bed of linguini.