Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Mar 29th 2008, 4:25 pm
#16
is Happy
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Mill Bay, Vancouver Island
Posts: 533
Mar 29th 2008, 4:35 pm
#17
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Criminals have rights because they're human.
More to the point, animal cruelty is condoned in Canada, it's part of the culture and whole industries (e.g. PMU farms, horse slaughter) flourish here and in Mexico because animal cruelty is acceptable here in a way that it's not the US. Canada is an odd destination for someone concerned about a few furry creatures getting their heads bashed in.
Mar 29th 2008, 4:55 pm
#18
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Liverpool - UK
Posts: 31
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Criminals have rights because they're human.
More to the point, animal cruelty is condoned in Canada, it's part of the culture and whole industries (e.g. PMU farms, horse slaughter) flourish here and in Mexico because animal cruelty is acceptable here in a way that it's not the US. Canada is an odd destination for someone concerned about a few furry creatures getting their heads bashed in.
More to the point, animal cruelty is condoned in Canada, it's part of the culture and whole industries (e.g. PMU farms, horse slaughter) flourish here and in Mexico because animal cruelty is acceptable here in a way that it's not the US. Canada is an odd destination for someone concerned about a few furry creatures getting their heads bashed in.
1. Man walks up to seal and bashes/shoots the seal dead and then does what is needed.
2. Man walks up to bunch of seals, bashes them all about, and then whilst they are still alive skins a few (whislt alive) and then leaves half of them to just suffercate in there own blood.
Now I am a fully paid up member of the "animals are there for us to eat ... pass the next cow" brigade, but sometimes when you see #2 above you have to wonder about the morals of things.
Lucky for you about the McCartneys
i was in LIPA yesterday, and its full of the McCartney'esque looneys Al
Mar 29th 2008, 5:13 pm
#19
is Happy
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Mill Bay, Vancouver Island
Posts: 533
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Was kinda hoping it wouldnt be a part of the daily conversation or on my job description - item 12 - you must be tolerant of canadians who agree with animal cruelty.
I am tolerant of any persons opinions - even those who agree with animal cruelty - just because i dont agree with it shouldn't exclude me from coming to canada??? just seems such a drastic statement to make .
I get the feeling its something you feel strongly about - as do I so i shall bow out of this conversation gracefully before it becomes one i dont want to be involved in - as i have said in previous posts - this discussion is like discussing religion and politics people have strong opinions - i dont expect to change yours and i presume you dont expect to change mine therefor there is no point in debating or getting wound up
Mar 29th 2008, 6:58 pm
#20
yeah....I can do that !
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Kingston , Nova Scotia
Posts: 78
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Yeah ,its just how its done.When you look at the world around you and see how other so called 'thirdworld 'cultures kill it is always done with so much respect and thought concerning the animal.Was watching Ray Meers Bushcrafts. He was in Africa watching a 3 tribal hunters track a kudo all day long,the animal just gave up in the end and laid down he just couldnt run any longer,it was killed but so humanly.. the hunter sat down next to it and thanked it for dying for him, it made me cry not because it lost its life but there was so much respect in those final seconds between animal and man.. it was peaceful.
No peace out there on the ice.
No peace out there on the ice.
At the end of the day we / the press etc. pick and choose what 'we' find objectionable.
Mar 29th 2008, 7:29 pm
#21
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Not really, no. Some countries are tolerant of animal cruelty, some less so, there's no bullfighting here but there are rodeos, foxhunting, all manner of things that might be frowned upon in England. I don't get excited about any of it.
It does however seems to me to be morally inconsistent to assert that animal related concerns are important to you and then to move to a place where they are generally not much thought of. I'd be a bit disconcerted if Brigit Bardot or the legless McCartney moved to Canada.
It does however seems to me to be morally inconsistent to assert that animal related concerns are important to you and then to move to a place where they are generally not much thought of. I'd be a bit disconcerted if Brigit Bardot or the legless McCartney moved to Canada.
Mar 29th 2008, 8:14 pm
#22
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Good news for the McCartney's...
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/407162
Seals 4 Club-wielding-heathen-Canadians 0
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/407162
Seals 4 Club-wielding-heathen-Canadians 0
Mar 29th 2008, 8:49 pm
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NS
Posts: 1,212
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
But the Europeans are oh so sophisticated
Mar 29th 2008, 8:51 pm
#24
half a century
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Sarf Lundun to East Van :)
Posts: 10,222
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Can I just ask -
why do they cull the seals?? is it cos they eat too many fish if left to get to adult hood??
do they carry a lif threatening disease?
do they need the seals for food?
just asking as a layman?
all the media seems about the inhumnaity of it but wondered why they do it to start with!
why do they cull the seals?? is it cos they eat too many fish if left to get to adult hood??
do they carry a lif threatening disease?
do they need the seals for food?
just asking as a layman?
all the media seems about the inhumnaity of it but wondered why they do it to start with!
Mar 29th 2008, 9:00 pm
#25
Slightly Canadian
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 10,129
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Cull is a misleading term. Harvest or Hunt is more correct.
Seals are harvested primarily for their pelts, which are valued as fur in some countries. As a byproduct some meat is sold for human consumption but not much, & seal oil is used as a source of Omega 3,
The hunt is an emotive subject and it is unlikely that any individual is going to have their point of view changed by logic and reason. Not when pictures of cute whitecoats (no longer hunted), men with clubs (most seals are shot) and the full PR might of Greenpeace, PETA, The Seashepherd society etc etc is brought to bear. It's a valuable fund raising tool for most of these organisations.
I'm ambivalent about the hunt per se. I think there are far more important things to worry about in the world. Factory farming is far more harmful to animals but most of us don't care about that so why pick the hunt as an issue?
I'm also not a fan of people from somewhere else telling people from another part of the world how to live their lives. Whether thats Newfoundland sealers or kids in Africa beating a dog to death.
Finally, one could argue that Seal as a fur is a more environmentally sustainable product than Goretex & Nylon. It was a hoot watching Heather Usedtobe McCartney brandishing her PVC boots with glee a couple of years ago on Larry King Live whilst bigging up her eco-friendliness.
Seals are harvested primarily for their pelts, which are valued as fur in some countries. As a byproduct some meat is sold for human consumption but not much, & seal oil is used as a source of Omega 3,
The hunt is an emotive subject and it is unlikely that any individual is going to have their point of view changed by logic and reason. Not when pictures of cute whitecoats (no longer hunted), men with clubs (most seals are shot) and the full PR might of Greenpeace, PETA, The Seashepherd society etc etc is brought to bear. It's a valuable fund raising tool for most of these organisations.
I'm ambivalent about the hunt per se. I think there are far more important things to worry about in the world. Factory farming is far more harmful to animals but most of us don't care about that so why pick the hunt as an issue?
I'm also not a fan of people from somewhere else telling people from another part of the world how to live their lives. Whether thats Newfoundland sealers or kids in Africa beating a dog to death.
Finally, one could argue that Seal as a fur is a more environmentally sustainable product than Goretex & Nylon. It was a hoot watching Heather Usedtobe McCartney brandishing her PVC boots with glee a couple of years ago on Larry King Live whilst bigging up her eco-friendliness.
Mar 29th 2008, 9:09 pm
#27
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Finally, one could argue that Seal as a fur is a more environmentally sustainable product than Goretex & Nylon. It was a hoot watching Heather Usedtobe McCartney brandishing her PVC boots with glee a couple of years ago on Larry King Live whilst bigging up her eco-friendliness.
Mar 29th 2008, 9:17 pm
#28
no I aint
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: The dog house
Posts: 2,100
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Veal is a misconception, they are not bred for meat consumption so therefore if female cow produces a male offspring they either go when young, or else they would have little economic value. Not all veal is stuck in a crate it depends where/how you buy.
Mar 29th 2008, 9:24 pm
#29
itchy feet again!
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ex-Canada: now rural West Sussex.
Posts: 1,013
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
Well, you won't want to eat any meat when you move to Canada, then.
A cow that lives with 100,000 other cows in a feed lot or a chicken that lives in a barn with 10,000 other chickens lives in conditions of sheer hell.
While you're about it, better not wear any leather or wool either. It's quite a feat to accomplish in Canada. I've actually tried it.
Your other option, if you eschew leather, is to buy cheap, synthetic shoes and handbags. The problem with them, unfortunately, is that they're made in Third World countries, in sweat shops, and often with child labour.
Have you heard about the ships on which live Australian sheep are sent to the Middle East, when they've finished producing wool, so that they can be slaughtered by methods that are consistent with the requirements of Muslims' halal rules? Something like 80% of the world's wool comes from Australia and, if you buy anything made of wool, you're almost certainly supporting that industry.
Don't wear anything made of down either. Geese are plucked 4 or 5 times during their lifetimes, and it's a very painful process for them.
Silk is out, of course. It's painful for silk worms to be boiled to death.
A fish suffers when it's harvested, either with a painful hook or drawn out of the water with a net. The feeling it has when it comes out of the water is the equivalent feeling that we get when we're held under water.
Then there is human encroachment on natural habitat that deprives species of their livelihood. Have you witnessed the violence that's involved when humans go in and tear up a natural space (by plowing it for agriculture or whatever)? I have, and I can tell you it's not a pretty picture.
Then there's unnecessary animal testing of cosmetics, drugs, etc.
The military establishments of many countries also carry out very cruel testing on animals. The USA, for example, has subjected tens of thousands of primates to various conditions, such as radiation sickness, in an attempt to predict how long humans could continue to operate planes, tanks, etc., under a variety of circumstances.
Your husband is a chef. I hope he doesn't use veal and foie gras in his cooking. Clubbing a seal pup to death is humane by comparison.
If you have a shred of internal consistency, you'll at least pay three times as much and buy free range chicken and beef when you move to Canada.
x
A cow that lives with 100,000 other cows in a feed lot or a chicken that lives in a barn with 10,000 other chickens lives in conditions of sheer hell.
While you're about it, better not wear any leather or wool either. It's quite a feat to accomplish in Canada. I've actually tried it.
Your other option, if you eschew leather, is to buy cheap, synthetic shoes and handbags. The problem with them, unfortunately, is that they're made in Third World countries, in sweat shops, and often with child labour.
Have you heard about the ships on which live Australian sheep are sent to the Middle East, when they've finished producing wool, so that they can be slaughtered by methods that are consistent with the requirements of Muslims' halal rules? Something like 80% of the world's wool comes from Australia and, if you buy anything made of wool, you're almost certainly supporting that industry.
Don't wear anything made of down either. Geese are plucked 4 or 5 times during their lifetimes, and it's a very painful process for them.
Silk is out, of course. It's painful for silk worms to be boiled to death.
A fish suffers when it's harvested, either with a painful hook or drawn out of the water with a net. The feeling it has when it comes out of the water is the equivalent feeling that we get when we're held under water.
Then there is human encroachment on natural habitat that deprives species of their livelihood. Have you witnessed the violence that's involved when humans go in and tear up a natural space (by plowing it for agriculture or whatever)? I have, and I can tell you it's not a pretty picture.
Then there's unnecessary animal testing of cosmetics, drugs, etc.
The military establishments of many countries also carry out very cruel testing on animals. The USA, for example, has subjected tens of thousands of primates to various conditions, such as radiation sickness, in an attempt to predict how long humans could continue to operate planes, tanks, etc., under a variety of circumstances.
Your husband is a chef. I hope he doesn't use veal and foie gras in his cooking. Clubbing a seal pup to death is humane by comparison.
If you have a shred of internal consistency, you'll at least pay three times as much and buy free range chicken and beef when you move to Canada.
x
Mar 29th 2008, 9:24 pm
#30
half a century
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Sarf Lundun to East Van :)
Posts: 10,222
Re: Canadians and the Seal Hunt...
You're right, Judy, it is quite a feat, and much more difficult in Canada than in the UK, but it can be done.....I have been a vegetarian for over thirty years, do not wear leather, wool or silk. There are many pitfalls, many of which you have listed.........toothpaste contains animal by-products as do many biscuits, ice-creams and yogurts. I'm that annoting woman in the supermarket who reads all the ables of new products! Yes, I know it's eccentric, but I like to think I do nothing to contribute to the misery of the animals with whom we share this planet.