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British & European citizens post Brexit

British & European citizens post Brexit

Old Jun 23rd 2017, 7:09 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
I believe the Guardian reported on that too here: Match offer made by the EU

I don't know how correct that article is, but the suggestion that the UK will keep free movement of EU nationals post brexit is, I believe, somewhat bizarre. After all, isn't the prevention of free movement of people one of the main points argued by the leavers pre-referendum, however one argues what was meant by that?
I didn't mean the counter proposal from the EU but rather; what do the people who don't like May's proposal want? Brexit is about getting rid of foreigners so, in that context, granting status to workers already working seems as reasonable as one is likely to see.
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Old Jun 23rd 2017, 7:24 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by mrken30
I don't think there has been a solution provided to allow seasonal migrant workers. There is not much fruit to be picked in December. How is that going to work?
27000 workers from eu cause the veg in uk to get to market in nov..dec..jan..feb..march...but this autumns numbers are down by 37%. If they do not improve in next 2 weeks crops will not be planted
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 11:13 am
  #18  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by dbd33
I didn't mean the counter proposal from the EU but rather; what do the people who don't like May's proposal want? Brexit is about getting rid of foreigners so, in that context, granting status to workers already working seems as reasonable as one is likely to see.
Brexit isn't so much about getting rid of foreigners as having control over the flow. A proposal that granted immediate right to remain to any EU national who was resident at A50 would have been reasonable and straightforward in my view. I think the EU is suggesting that the qualifying period should be up until formal departure in 2019, but that seems ill thought out, as it would surely generate a rush of people seeking to establish dual residency rights before a deadline.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 11:20 am
  #19  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

Fog in the Channel: continent cut off.
The aphorism du jour.

John Redwood on the radio this morning banging on about how "no deal" (trade) would be worse for the EU than for Britain, and how they need the UK more than we need them. Truly delusional.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 11:44 am
  #20  
 
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
She (Merkel) rejected colluding with May in an attempted end run around the EU negotiators, rejecting any discussions of substance before A50 was triggered.
And yet May is the only one being vilified in the national press. Why is that?

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
Either side can guarantee rights unilaterally. Mrs May wanted a reciprocal deal but that was rejected as the EU would only discuss the rights of British citizens resident elsewhere in the EU (and by the same token their own citizens resident in the UK) as part of the entire Brexit deal. It's strange that when the EU refuses to guarantee citizens' rights then that's a perfectly reasonable negotiating stance whereas the UK does the same they're turning people 'into bargaining chips'.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 11:48 am
  #21  
 
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
But a closer analogy would be Delaware declaring independence from the USA and guaranteeing certain rights to citizens of the other 49 states but then adding that the final court of appeal on implementing those rights would be the highest court in Delaware, not the US Supreme Court.

Fog in the Channel: continent cut off.
If the proposal put forward by May on guaranteeing citizens rights included the proposition that any future arbitration of British citizens' residual rights in the EU would be overseen only by British courts she would be quite rightly condemned. Why is then that you think the reverse is acceptable?
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 11:48 am
  #22  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by BritInParis
And yet May is the only one being vilified in the national press. Why is that?

Either side can guarantee rights unilaterally. Mrs May wanted a reciprocal deal but that was rejected as the EU would only discuss the rights of British citizens resident elsewhere in the EU (and by the same token their own citizens resident in the UK) as part of the entire Brexit deal. It's strange that when the EU refuses to guarantee citizens' rights then that's a perfectly reasonable negotiating stance whereas the UK does the same they're turning people 'into bargaining chips'.
Except that it's not the EU that is leaving ?! It's not strange at all.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 11:55 am
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by Shard
Except that it's not the EU that is leaving ?! It's not strange at all.
Ah I see, a perfectly acceptable double standard then, got it.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 2:12 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by Shard
Brexit isn't so much about getting rid of foreigners as having control over the flow. A proposal that granted immediate right to remain to any EU national who was resident at A50 would have been reasonable and straightforward in my view. I think the EU is suggesting that the qualifying period should be up until formal departure in 2019, but that seems ill thought out, as it would surely generate a rush of people seeking to establish dual residency rights before a deadline.
You are making assumptions that people would want to live in the UK with a low exchange rate and major attitude problems with regards to foreigners.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 2:59 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by mrken30
You are making assumptions that people would want to live in the UK with a low exchange rate and major attitude problems with regards to foreigners.
It would appear someone does.
Brexit: EU nationals seeking British citizenship more than triples in past year, new figures show
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 3:05 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Not relevant. mrken was replying to the supposition by Shard that EU27 people would flock to the UK in the future. Which is highly improbable.

Originally Posted by mrken30
You are making assumptions that people would want to live in the UK with a low exchange rate and major attitude problems with regards to foreigners.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 3:22 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

That was then, this was last week.

EU nurses' applications to work in UK down 96% since Brexit vote

I agree there were a lot of EU people wanting to move to the UK. That was pre-xenophobia era.

On the other hand, the UK Government said a year ago, that we would be out of the EU in 2 years. A year later we are not that much closer to being organized. Where are all these global trade agreements?
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 3:30 pm
  #28  
 
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by mrken30
I agree there were a lot of EU people wanting to move to the UK. That was pre-xenophobia era.
For which is no demonstrable evidence whatsoever.

On the other hand, the UK Government said a year ago, that we would be out of the EU in 2 years. A year later we are not that much closer to being organized. Where are all these global trade agreements?
Two years from the date of triggering Article 50 which is April 2019. That hasn't change. The UK can't negotiate any FTAs of its own whilst we are members of the EU hence one of the main advantages of leaving. That hasn't changed either.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 4:36 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by mrken30
You are making assumptions that people would want to live in the UK with a low exchange rate and major attitude problems with regards to foreigners.
Admittedly we are less the land of milk and honey than in recent years, but it's the nature of deadlines, it does encourage some fence sitters to take the plunge. There's certainly been a surge in Brits applying for Irish and other EU passports (where entitled).

But hopefully won't come to this at all. Hopefully as the genuine issues in Brexit become increasingly exposed, public mood will shift to the point where a pseudo-Brexit can be engineered, and we can all keep calm and carry on.
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Old Jun 24th 2017, 5:16 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: British & European citizens post Brexit

Originally Posted by BritInParis
For which is no demonstrable evidence whatsoever.
Really? Hate crimes rise by up to 100 per cent across England and Wales, figures reveal | The Independent

The UK can't negotiate any FTAs of its own whilst we are members of the EU hence one of the main advantages of leaving.
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