dave_j

I've always lived by the maxim that it costs nothing to be polite.

When I've met with indifference I've often asked myself 'Why do that?' to which the answer generally comes 'Because they can..'

So, when I order something from Amazon I get emails tracking the purchase at all stages and this is a common feature of many online transactions and even of financial institutions that require snail mail contact.

So I ask myself, 'Why does IRCC leave you in limbo for so long without knowing whether they've recieved or not your application?'

It would be nice to know that, although Canada Post dutifully reports that your valuable package was delivered, IRCC has received it and looked at it.

Now I know that security will probably require that online access should be limited to a very select number of servers, after all you don't want everyone in such a sensitive governmental agency to have access to the WWW, but surely it's not outside human ingenuity to allow an officer who initially inspects your package to complete an app on their machine that communicates with a server that's able to send an 'Application Received' acknowledgement.

But that's probably the way it was always done, one day they'll realise that the internet's arrived, but I don't suppose anyone has emailed them with an 'Internet Arrived' acknowledgement so it's likely they don't know yet.

BristolUK

I made that very point on recent PR Card renewal threads.

You can apparently track the status of your application. But they only record its existence once they have started work on it. And you actually get it a couple of days after that because they have it all done within a couple of days of starting.

So, if the processing time is 84 days, you send off the application and for 80 days there is no record of it at all. For 80 days it sits somewhere waiting for its turn, untracked. Then it is listed and then you get it almost straight away.

Chances are, though, that maybe you lost track of the exact days; or maybe got fed up checking; or just checked once a week.

There's a pretty good chance you actually receive it before you discover it being worked on.

They could at least tell you something useful. Like we don't record applications upon receipt but we do vet them quickly. Any that need to be returned or where additional information is needed are returned within a week. Or something. At least then you'd know that if you haven't had it back, it's all fine and will take the 84 days.

Without that helpful bit of information, the ability to check status on line is actually meaningless because you cannot do so.

scrubbedexpat091

It would be nice but it's the government, they don't care.

I have to send IRS returns to the US each tax year. Would be nice if the IRS could acknowledge they received it and all is well, but they never do.

Former Lancastrian

I have also heard rumours that the US Immigration system is very similar.
I expect somebody will attest that the UK Immigration system is vastly superior and has an app that you can download and you have the option of selecting Update My Status every 5 minutes, weekly, monthly etc etc.

Yes one would think its doable but who's gonna pay for it? There again the Canadian IT system is a bit of a joke at time. I know we still share and piggy back onto the Canadian Revenue Agency mainframe.
Unless the Govt have total control they are unlikely to allow a 3rd party to tap into their systems or pay costs for upgrades just so individuals can track their status. There again how useful would this be if your application is in an INBOX somewhere waiting to be reviewed by an officer. Sure you might get a message application received X date then what?
Officer picks up application
Officer puts back down application and goes for coffee
Officer picks up application
Officer is requested by Supervisor to work on something more important
Officer picks up file starts to enter data and computer crashes
Officer is now on 2 weeks vacation

dave_j

There's an old saying that goes ' It doesn't matter who you vote for the government always gets in'.

This is wrong. It should say.. ' It doesn't matter who you vote for the civil service always gets in'.

It's the civil service that doesn't care, after all anyone would think they worked for us when all we do is whinge about their failings.

My case rests.

Oink

When I was going through the process in the US, the immigration officer that was assigned to me, gave me his direct number and would also call me every three weeks with an update. I suspect they don't care about you.

Former Lancastrian

Come on fess up you are now married or was boning that officer.

Vulcanoid

At several points during his application for a Tier 5 YMV to Britain - after discovering the myriad Home Office websites with contradictory instructions (none of which turned out to be correct on some issues), and the 4 hour drive each way to the mandatory 5 minute interview, and trying to balance the requirement to have booked travel because you chose your activation date as part of application, but being strongly advised not to book travel until it had been approved, and having to time various parts of the in-person process which required planning in advance to use physical papers with inconsistent production times, and very short validity periods - my partner had a few choice comments about the UK system

Former Lancastrian

My case also rests. Isn't it great working for the Govt and then pointing out to them that they have posted erroneous info on their websites and in doing so are deemed somewhat of a PITA by the hierarchy as they are the ones that approved this information to be posted. And God forbid you go outside of the chain of command when doing so. Thats a burning at the stake offence.

BristolUK

What's the great expense on PR Card renewal?

It seems they receive the application and it waits.
If processing time is 84 days, at about the 80 day point they record the fact they have it, on their system. At this point you can see that they have it if you happen to look at that point.
2 days later it's done, the system is updated and your card is on the way.

So the received data is input once, on the 80th day, and then updated as cleared about the 82nd.

Why would it cost more to input on day one and then update it on the 82nd day? It's the same information going in, just going in at the beginning instead of near the end.

That way one knows they've got it and you don't waste their time trying to find out if they've got it.

Former Lancastrian

I don't work for IRCC.
Im guessing that the CPC Sydney Office does the following
The CPC in Sydney processes:

applications for permanent resident cards (new and renewals)
citizenship applications (new, renouncing, revoking and resuming)

So how many applications on the above do you think they receive?
How many staff do you think they have working?
How long do you think a review of each application takes if they have to review and make sure all info is correct and relevant info has been submitted and doesn't need to be sent back or on hold awaiting more information?

dave_j

It's all a question of having the will to do something.

Let's imagine how it works at Sydney.

An application arrives, one of two things will happen. It will either be placed on the bottom of a big pile unopened or it will be opened and put on the bottom of another more appropriate pile in an appropriate department. It may or may not remain in the sender's envelope. If it does then the pile gets untidy so I suspect that the contents will be extracted and placed in a IRCC envelope, possible with the applicants ID on it. Either way, the contents will have been examined.

Now all applications are made on standard IRCC forms so if there is a sender's email address filled in then it'll be easy to find. All that needs to happen is for an operator to lean over to his mouse, activate an app, type in the sender's email address in the box, select the appropriate message from a dropdown list and click send. It'll take all of a minute or two at the most. At the day's end, a reconcilliation program will recover all emails waiting to be sent and then send them from a secure server.

But it doesn't happen because it costs the civil service a little effort and doesn't benefit them. It's a shortsighted view of serving the public.

Shard

I suppose they have 80 day's worth of forms to input before they get to processing?

Former Lancastrian

Canada allows approx 300,000 new immigrants a year aka new Permanent Residents. So they arrive with their COPR forms normally at a Port Of Entry or they make an appointment at an Inland IRCC office if eligible. All they are required to do is provide a Canadian address and their 1st card is then mailed to them. Those who don't provide an address within 180 days of arriving don't get a PR card.
So straight off the bat you are looking at 300,000 PR cards for initial issue. This happens every year so those who don't take out citizenship within the 1st 5 years will have to renew and be sent a new card as its only valid for 5 years.
Now actually you don't lawfully require one if just living in Canada and have no intention of travelling outside of Canada.
Now we have people who are in Canada who now decide to travel and they don't have a PR card so what do they do well they either send in an application to get a PR card or obtain a Permanent Resident Travel Document and guess where they have to send it to would it surprise you if I said CPC Sydney.
Now we also have those people who are somewhat forgetful or careless and misplace or lose their PR card so guess what they have to send an application in for a new PR card to be issued.
Of course there are those people who are somewhat flippant about having to fill in Government forms and reading instructions on how to fill out the forms and if supporting documentation is required. Well it either gets sent back with resubmit or might be held with a letter sent to them asking them to send the missing information. They will send the letter/returned application to the last known address provided of course the person hasn't moved and has not provided IRCC with an updated home address.

So if they are dealing with 300,000 new PR's every year then one would expect they might be receiving nearly 300,000 applications for Citizenship and the whole cycle begins again.

So the average UK citizen who is a PR will have one PR card initially issued after landing and dependent on how quickly they submit an application for Citizenship they will probably have to submit 1 PR card renewal after 5 yrs to tide them over until they get Citizenship. There again they could be one of those who doesn't want to get Canadian citizenship (like my parents born in the UK) and keep on applying every 5 years for a new card and bitching about the process and costs

BristolUK

I have absolutely no idea. But entering the details of an application is done prior to clearance a couple of days later.

I repeat the question - why would input of the application on a different day be more costly? It wouldn't.

The fact that one could actually see an application in a queue means you're not going to waste their time by trying to find out if they've got it.

So not only does it not cost more, it frees some resources. Plus that little bonus of actually being useful.

And if something does have to be queried or returned, it makes no difference at what stage that happens either; it still has to be done.