Atilla

Firstly, apologies for this going to several boards here but the same issues apply to different countries and the responses will likely be different. Not all residents of these countries may visit all the forums so it's a case of needs must

I have recently retired at 52 after working 33+ years in the UK and 3 years overseas in the UAE. For a LOOOONG time I have fancied the idea of living abroad and often felt that France would be my end point. I like the language, food, country and the people so it had quite a few ticks in boxes. Of late though a few things have changed. Firstly there is the 'inactifs' issue (the need to have private medical cover now if below state retirement age), then there is the position with the Euro and also on the personal front, I now have some different considerations following life in the UAE. The France specific issues are not show-stoppers but need careful consideration I think.

My desire to relocate is not so much on disillusionment with the UK (albeit there is a lot I'm not happy with - but similar issues affect everywhere), more a case of I'm not SURE it offers me what I want out of life now. Previously I thought ALL I wanted was a sunnier clime, good food, wine and good heritage and culture. I'm not sure though of those ingredients alone are enough now. To fulfil them, France would be ideal, albeit I think somewhere south of the Loire would be needed to benefit from better weather. So I considered Aquitane, Languedoc and Provence. All still viable of course. I also considered Spain and Italy, but I'm just not sure there is as much there as I'd like given that I don't think it's just warmer that I'm after.

Much about the UAE I did not enjoy. Stifling heat for 7 months of the year (50+ often and very high humidity), the cost of most things there (except tat, some food and spices), a somewhat restrictive life style and, at times, the squalor in the backstreets which is far removed from the shots of the beach and its promenade (the Corniche) that the brochures and magazines are full of!!! I did however like a few things there, some of which I miss here. The weather during the winter months, the fact that it was sunny a lot, being able to nip to a very well equipped gym and health complex on foot and being able to pop out for a drink or meal at any number of multi-cultural restaurants or bars in a variety of settings (inside/outside/beach etc etc). May all sound a bit odd but thinking about it now I'm not sure that even France offers ALL of those in the same way at least, unless it is for mega bucks near St Tropez, and even then, there is not such a great variety.

This got me contemplating other locations as potential options with a significant determining factor being the viability of it all, thus ruling out, by and large, places like Canada, USA, Australia etc etc as I have no plans to work (albeit I might if the right thing came along but then of course it's a different ball game and visa requirements vary considerably) and retirement visa options are limited or non-existant. Like I say, France, Spain and Italy are still options but I am now more actively considering:

1) Malaysia: Benefits of the MM2H visa, variety of food and cultures, cosmopolitan, good standard of living and lower costs. Cons include: concerns over area stability, yet to research services and availability/standard, more tropical climate, cost of cars etc. Considering Penang.

2) Phillipines: Similar option but more Phillipine from what I gather than the greater diversity of Malaysia.

3) South Africa: Good visa option. Real concerns over high crime/risk and the numbers of SAs who leave (for the same reasons).

4) Thailand: Again OK but it seems less advanced/sophisticated that 1 & 2 above and there are more concerns over stability.

There are also more general considerations which apply to all, some which are easier to deal with dependant on how close the point of relocation is. They include:

a) Stay there for ever or return as old age creeps in

b) Sell up the house here or keep a base either by keeping it and renting out, investing in a smaller foothold or whatever.

c) Ship all the belongings out, put them in storage or sell off?

d) Medical and other services in other countries.


So, sorry for the long rambling posts. I have been and will be reading as many threads as I can here but any pointers with regard to things I may have missed or other things to consider greatly appreciated. At the moment Malaysia is I think in number one spot, probably with France and Italy as a second above the Phillipines etc.

ex reg

If you don't need the dosh from selling the house why not use it for a 6 and 6.
You would also then have the option of UK NHS if need be.
A small flat might be more secure.

bakedbean

Well you've posted this on the Malaysia sub-forum, so shall assume that you might want some info on Malaysia.

I have retired here with Mr bakedbean and enjoying it (so far) but only 5 months in

Covering just a couple of your points. Under MM2H visa, you can get a tax-free car, which lessens the cost a little bit, though for sure prices are higher than UK I think. Mr bakedbean got a Honda Accord tax free for RM 115,000 or thereabouts.

On the medical insurance issue, if you cannot get it for ANY reason (i.e. too old, or health issues) they will waver the requirement. Just have to get a letter from the insurance company. There are good hospitals, both private and local, in Penang where I am living.

I'm not quite with you on the "Area stability" issue Can you enlighten please?

The other countries you'll have to go on each board here as we don't have a retirement sub-forum. Actually I think it would be a good idea to have such a sub-forum, to compare what different countries have to offer. How about it Sue?

bakedbean

Forgot to say, there's a good government website for MM2H and an independent forum run by a MM2Her. You've probably seen my links on here? If not, give me a nudge and I'll put some fresh links on this thread.

Strider24

Hi Atilla,

I know I'm biased, but of the countries you mention, for me a no brainer. Malaysia all the way. Malaysia has fundamentally the same system of government as UK, similar laws and similar sense of morality as UK. I would not put Philippines as high on the list as its a bit of a basket case, issues with owning property ...and they sort of speak American!!

The rules for MM2H are not bad really and can be done yourself or via an agent. I did my own. Cars can be expensive, however a good family Malaysian made car is about the same as in the UK. Example the Gen2 or Persona on the road for the same money as UK (PDS 11995 on road). Toyota and some others are expensive simply because they can get away with it. However as bakedbean said the duty/tax free one off for MM2H is not bad although must be either Malaysian made or assembled. I got a Nissan x-trail for RM99300, down from RM147800, so not a bad deal really.

Good medical facilities in the country and super ones close by in Singapore if you feel the need. The big thing is food. Couple that with the fun nature of Malaysians (not necessarily in Kuala Lumpur which is just another big city) contributed to our decision.

As a keen sailor, I can tell you the water is fine

Atilla

Thanks both. Interesting. Malaysia really appeals the most at the moment. On the stability front it's more in relation to places like Thailand and such like though the stability of the regimes/countries as a whole has been commented upon as I have scoured the net for info. Personally I'd not be so bothered about the potential for probs with Malaysia. As a an option for 2-5 years, or even longer if I really like it, it appeals.

So, any thoughts on where might be some good places to live. I hear Langkawi is very picturesque but may be better for a visit than a place to set up home. KL appeals because of it's access to everything, but, full time?? Penang I hear is good.

On the subject of living there I believe many things are cheaper or at least mo more expensive than the UK. Main things I'm interested in:

IT and computer components - better to import or buy?
Clothes and such like?
Provisions and general shopping - reasonable I believe?
Beer/wine - I don't drink much at all but costs of interest?
Gyms and such like - availability and prices

Spread of night life. In the UAE it was pretty poor really. Either restaurants or pretty seedy disco style bars. Few places where you actually felt like you wanted to go there for an evening or even an hour or two.

Heat in UAE was hellish for 5-7 months of the year, 50 degrees many days and really high humidity so I don't think that will be so problematic. Just off to look it climate charts now.

Strider24

Hi Atilla,

IT...buy here...in fact a great many components are manufactured here.
Clothes...buy here. I live in shorts and T shirts. At the night markets I pick up good shorts for RM 20.
Provisions...bring good cheese, although Cold Storage, Tesco, Carrefour, Billion and Giant supermarket chains are carrying an increasing array of expat food.

Beer/wine stock up in Langkawi a duty free port. Otherwise canned beer is typically around RM115 a 24 can carton.
Gyms..no idea, but most decent condo's have reasonable Gyms. I prefer walks in the park, or exercise with the locals early morning.

Where to live is a hard one. But a few examples.
Langkawi I agree a good place to visit, unless your a sailor in which case its probably one of the best places. Prices food etc higher than mainland.
Kuching is a large and lovely city, but prices again a bit higher than say Penang.
Kota Kinabalu.. again a nice city with good sailing with lovely cool mountains close at hand. Excellent food. Both KK and Kuching are largely Christian populations, although plenty of mosques as well. Close to duty free island of Labuan (which is even cheaper than Langkawi)
Johor Baru ...I have not been to for years, but I'm told is now very big, cosmopolitan, close to Singapore and the Government is pushing it as a place to settle.
Melaka and Penang...are wonderful historical towns, great food, and nightmare traffic. Both by the sea although Penang views would be better.
KL...is a big sophisticated city. Can be expensive in CBD, but reasonable in the 'burbs. Any food you want, but is inland a bit and really not a place for lovely vistas. Mountains and gambling haven of Genting Highlands close by.
Ipoh...once the tin capital of the world, is now a much quieter inland city with wonderful limestone mountains and close to the vegetable capital of Cameron Highlands. Increasingly catering for expats and English widely spoken.
We have a place on the coast from Ipoh in Sri Manjong district near Pangkor Island (south of Penang) as I like the more country atmosphere. Good choice of shops, very cheap and good food and not bad sailing, everyone speaks good English..but no mountains close by.

ex reg

Some good points in the above posts but sorry I'm going to give some opposing views on some of the points made.
It's all personal anyway.

On Strider's very helpful analysis of places to live.
There are for me only two options.
KL or Penang. The other places are OK for a holiday.
I wouldn't live in KL so Penang only for me.

Wouldn't agree that Malaysia has the same system of Government as UK. It may have years ago but has now changed. Especially how Bumis are viewed politically.
Not even sure that similar morality is correct either.

On medical facilities, I can't comment on those in Malaysia although I'd rather be treated in UK but Singapore has the facilities yes but it costs and costs quite a lot.
Not only that but I always treat medical consultations here in Singapore with a pinch of salt.
I went to a doctor in Singapore one day, large island wide practice with own private hospital, and was immediately referred to a specialist the next day, which I was happy with as it would take a month or so in UK.
I saw the Deputy Chief of Surgery who told me I needed an operation and he could fit me in the following afternoon. I balked at this as I was due to be in UK the following month. When in UK although it took a further month to get to the specialist after X rays etc he told me that there was no need for the very tricky operation suggested in Singapore and in fact my problem was a minor one which needed no further treatment.

Last week I was at a dentist here. Full check up, X rays cleaning 55 quid. all OK no problem.
Yesterday a wisdom tooth filling fell out. Back to the dentist today. OK that sort of thing happens everywhere.

This sort of thing is small beer when you compare it overall.

But it may add some balance to your thinking.

I'd say you really need to come and look around to get a feel for the place before you go too far with any thinking or planning.

Although I say I'd live in Penang now, after my first visit there a long time ago I didn't like the place and we didn't return for nearly 20 years. Funny innit.

Strider24

Hi ex reg,

Your medical; experiences are a bit of a worry. Ive lived in Malaysia off and on for a total of 18 years and thank goodness never had to go in to hospital. However I have had friends and relatives who have and happily found that the vast majority of doctors are trained in Australia, UK or USA and their treatment was good.
My local dentist is Taiwan trained and OK and my doctor trained in Melbourne and again happily I have had no bad experiences.
The trick...as always is ..don't get sick

ex reg

As I've 5 minutes another medical story.
Having worked and or lived in the ME and FE for well over 35 years now I've spent a lot of time outside and in the sun. That was before the warnings about skin cancer.
I've had a lot of keratosis removed either by cryogenics, cut out, or use a cream.
Last year here in Sing a doctor used cryo on one spot which had become very red and scabby. She told me that they only needed cryo when the spots had got into a similar state. OK I thought she seemed sensible and not only that she was trained in the University Hospital close to where I live in UK.

I saw my GP in UK when I was back there last year as I had a few further spots and he said no need for cryo; cream would sort them. Anyway I realised later that I might get an allergic reaction to that cream as it was an NSAID and I'd had allergic reaction to similar tablets, but that's another surprising story for another time maybe.
So I decided to wait until I returned to Sing and see my specialist again.

This time even though the spot had decreased naturally until it was hardly visible she said I needed cryo and in fact found another 11 spots she said needed cryo, all of which were invisible except to her expert touch.
Even though her opinion now was 'different' to what it was last year I let her go ahead with the cryo, better safe than sorry with this sort of thing.
Anyway 200 quid and only about 3minutes of cryo later I'm not sure if I might leave this sort of thing to my GP in the UK.

bakedbean

I believe you can also get beer that has... ahem... fell off the back of a boat. Of course I don't know about that and I'm sure Strider wouldn't either

bakedbean

You may find Malaysia quite humid compared with UAE, but you really need to visit and see for yourself. We still use a little bit of aircon, and the electricity prices seem very reasonable to us.

Strider24

Hi ex reg,

We are probably getting off subject for poor Atilla...and bakedbean will probably chastise us and start a new thread. But I love horror stories.

Skin cancer is always a worry especially in sunny climes. Had a doctor (probably did a stint in Singapore) in far north Queensland at a resort town called Port Douglas. He thought I had a skin cancer on my side and proceeded to cut out a huge chunk, stitched it up and come back in a week for test results...and oh that will be A$180 thank you...and it was just a mole after all.

But then my local country town doctor, when I was trying to be a farmer in a one horse town in NSW Australia, happened to be Seremban born Chinese, who in his 70's still practices....and he suspected I had cancer, when all normal tests showed OK. He persisted until he blackmailed me into have a biopsy of the old prostate..and he was right. Happily it was early enough to cut it all out and non the worse for wear.

Bakedbean to let beer drop off the back of a boat is sacrilege..but to pick up a beer or three while in Langkawi on a boating trip I have heard of.

ex reg

The thing is Strider I suppose all these stories help someone build up a picture which might in the end give a better feel than the bare facts.

otoh they are all isolated instances.

ex reg

ME can be humid as well.

When I worked in Muscat I found it to be the most humid place I'd ever worked.
Absolutely amazing.
Sometimes a 20 second walk from an a/c car to an a/c office would see me drenched in sweat, absolutely drenched and then freezing in the office.
And I thought I was well acclimatized playing rugby and squash on a/c courts an using a/c at home as little as possible.