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Old May 16th 2017, 6:23 am   #46
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

Hi,

Just found this site, hoping can get some advice from people who have already made the move.
I am currently living in Hong Kong and had the fortune to both buy a house and have a good job here when the prices were ( for here) low. We have a fair bit of equity in it.
Now we are applying for the MM2H visa after beign to Malaysia a lot over the last 6 years and are looking firstly at Penang though will not settle down so quickly.
Now here are the stumblign blocks, in my mind at least i am sure there are ones i have not thought of.

I am 42 and my wife is 44 on this Visa we can not work in Malaysia though i can work online in my job as teacher or lecturer and I can apply for dispensation as they need teachers ( this is not a plan though)
We have a couple of houses in the UK rented out, would buy three more and put cash in HK stock market and UK as well as the fixed deposit income etc.

All in all at 4/5% return we can command about 2900 pounds a month or about 15-16000 ringgit. this is after costs though not including empty rent months etc.
We would have a nice but not lavish place i guess at 4-6000 ringgit.

now looking this is more than enough to have a reasonable time but am fully aware how young we are and how it might be way to early to do this.

Has anyone here done this so early?, and are there any hidden costs i need to be aware of. The aim, hopefully not to foolishly is to not touch capital at all until heading towards 55, i will also have most of a state pension coming when 67 though don't plan on relying on that. I can also do online work that will top up anything and keep me busy.

We are not that expensive to keep but obviously i don't wanna give up a fairly decent paycheck to find my self in trouble 20 years down the road and be unemployable!
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Old May 16th 2017, 7:41 am   #47
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchk View Post
Hi,

Just found this site, hoping can get some advice from people who have already made the move.
I am currently living in Hong Kong and had the fortune to both buy a house and have a good job here when the prices were ( for here) low. We have a fair bit of equity in it.
Now we are applying for the MM2H visa after beign to Malaysia a lot over the last 6 years and are looking firstly at Penang though will not settle down so quickly.
Now here are the stumblign blocks, in my mind at least i am sure there are ones i have not thought of.

I am 42 and my wife is 44 on this Visa we can not work in Malaysia though i can work online in my job as teacher or lecturer and I can apply for dispensation as they need teachers ( this is not a plan though)
We have a couple of houses in the UK rented out, would buy three more and put cash in HK stock market and UK as well as the fixed deposit income etc.

All in all at 4/5% return we can command about 2900 pounds a month or about 15-16000 ringgit. this is after costs though not including empty rent months etc.
We would have a nice but not lavish place i guess at 4-6000 ringgit.

now looking this is more than enough to have a reasonable time but am fully aware how young we are and how it might be way to early to do this.

Has anyone here done this so early?, and are there any hidden costs i need to be aware of. The aim, hopefully not to foolishly is to not touch capital at all until heading towards 55, i will also have most of a state pension coming when 67 though don't plan on relying on that. I can also do online work that will top up anything and keep me busy.

We are not that expensive to keep but obviously i don't wanna give up a fairly decent paycheck to find my self in trouble 20 years down the road and be unemployable!
Different age group (you just under a decade younger than I am), different "retirement" location and different job scope but otherwise incredibly similar circumstances & unfortunately, the same predicament, so I'll chuck in my 2 cents worth for you to mull over.

I came to Singapore some 20 - 25 years ago, and was lucky to get my foot into the market before Singapore became so expensive (starting to sound familiar eh?). Married a local girl, and as such we have steadily purchased a healthy mix of residential and commercial properties in Singapore, which are now generating a decent income stream.

I then started looking ahead - not to Blighty (spouse visa would be a bit iffy), so we thought, why not Australia. This was some 10 maybe 15 years ago. Got our PRs, again, bought into the market in Sydney and Melbourne before those places became Grud-awful expensive as well, and those houses/apartments have been a good source of passive income too.

Since you've been open about numbers, I'll let you in on what we're getting from our Singapore & Australian property rentals (given that the currencies are essentially at parity) - combined per month, we're taking in a touch under $40,000. This is, obviously, before taxes and other incidentals (these properties are are mortgage-free) such as maintenance, agent fees and council/strata fees where applicable.

Now here's the interesting thing. My work in Singapore relies on my name. My name is my brand. If I were to leave Singapore, I'll have to start from scratch. Again, analogous to what you just said, insofar as the MM2H visa restrictions are concerned.

Once I make the move to Australia, my "active" income stream dries up, and I'll have to make do with whatever passive investments (bonds, equities, term deposits) and rental returns I have.

What worries me isn't whether it'll be enough for the 2 of us - oh, I'm sure it'll be plenty - but whether I'll end up regretting making the move to "retirement" too early, and cut short my potential.

It's not about the money - after a while, it never is - but, about the passion, about the fire in one's belly and about achieving all that you can in your chosen career. At least that's the dilemma I'm facing at the moment.

I hope you don't end up (at 42 years old) thinking that you opted out before you've had a chance to maximize your not inconsiderable potential. After all, the MM2H visa program will still be around, and it's more of a retirement visa.

In my personal case, the 189 Visa to Australia (my 3rd visa - the first 2 expired because of, well, analysis paralysis I guess) will run out in 4 years' time, and then I'll have to make a definite decision whether to go or to forgo.

Good luck with your decision - I don't envy you, it will not be an easy one!
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Old May 16th 2017, 8:26 am   #48
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

it isn't an easy decision though I am fortunate to have it as a choice. i work on 2 yearly contracts and am midway through this one so i have 12 or so months to think about it, if i did another contract it would put me at 45/6 which is starting to be at least closer to 50 where i wouldn't feel so sheepish if people asked what i did and i said retired!
financially you are considerably better off than us! Though at our current rate each year adds to the pot. Didn't expect to be in this position so early in truth.
I couldn't just stop as i think that way would pose lifestyle problems after a while.
i can take a year off and still come back to another contract and that may be an idea to get the wander lust out of my system somewhat.

I think after 10 years or so in HK i need some fresh air!
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Old May 16th 2017, 12:01 pm   #49
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

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Originally Posted by Marchk View Post
Has anyone here done this so early?
Have

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchk View Post
and are there any hidden costs i need to be aware of. !
So far we did not found any. I mean in the above RM 1000 area.

I still work a little bit freelance from my home office, but not because it is really necessary. If I am asked, managing stock market accounts, bonds and fixed deposits in a couple of countries and currencies seriously is close to a full time job. We don´t need to touch the assets at the moment, dividends are very good, this year better than ever. Of cause if the world economy crashed we will be in trouble also.
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Old May 16th 2017, 12:01 pm   #50
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

I retired at 49.

Used to really enjoy my job but never had second thoughts about retiring.

We spend 6 months in UK and 6 months in Singapore.
Works for us.

One thing though is if you think you are confined in HK, Malaysia may not be that different even though it's a bigger country.
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Old May 16th 2017, 12:41 pm   #51
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

I retired at age 50, and am now living on an MM2H visa in Penang. I am not working. Not in a regular job, and not in some internet-based job.
I would say to both Marchk and xizzles that worrying about future cash flow is of secondary importance. Both of you give the impression that that flow is coming your way sufficiently.
What you need to consider is what you will do after shutting the door on your current occupation. What will you do when you're not occupied any longer? Some people find a way which makes and keeps them happy. Others get overly bored and regret the rest of their lives that they've put themselves on a side track. But this aspect is for each person different, and thus is it difficult to give general advice about it.
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Old May 16th 2017, 1:58 pm   #52
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

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Originally Posted by SushiFan View Post
I retired at age 50, and am now living on an MM2H visa in Penang. I am not working. Not in a regular job, and not in some internet-based job.
I would say to both Marchk and xizzles that worrying about future cash flow is of secondary importance. Both of you give the impression that that flow is coming your way sufficiently.
What you need to consider is what you will do after shutting the door on your current occupation. What will you do when you're not occupied any longer? Some people find a way which makes and keeps them happy. Others get overly bored and regret the rest of their lives that they've put themselves on a side track. But this aspect is for each person different, and thus is it difficult to give general advice about it.
I find myself in complete agreement with your comment. The trouble I have is that my entire life has been about my work, and work has become an inextricable part of my life - so much so that I fear for the day that I wake up in the morning and wonder "now then, what am I going to do today, eh?".

Having said that, I've taken tentative first steps towards a post-work existence. The wife and I have been on the most number of holidays in the past few years than we've ever been in the last 20. However, holidays are just that - a fortnight, 3 weeks, perhaps a month away - but there's always my work waiting for me when the flight takes me home.

Retirement .... now, that's truly something only for the brave, as far as I'm concerned at this point in time!

Horses for courses - and like you said, there's absolutely no "one size fits all" answer here!
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Old May 16th 2017, 4:01 pm   #53
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchk View Post
Hi,

Just found this site, hoping can get some advice from people who have already made the move.
I am currently living in Hong Kong and had the fortune to both buy a house and have a good job here when the prices were ( for here) low. We have a fair bit of equity in it.
Now we are applying for the MM2H visa after beign to Malaysia a lot over the last 6 years and are looking firstly at Penang though will not settle down so quickly.
Now here are the stumblign blocks, in my mind at least i am sure there are ones i have not thought of.

I am 42 and my wife is 44 on this Visa we can not work in Malaysia though i can work online in my job as teacher or lecturer and I can apply for dispensation as they need teachers ( this is not a plan though)
We have a couple of houses in the UK rented out, would buy three more and put cash in HK stock market and UK as well as the fixed deposit income etc.

All in all at 4/5% return we can command about 2900 pounds a month or about 15-16000 ringgit. this is after costs though not including empty rent months etc.
We would have a nice but not lavish place i guess at 4-6000 ringgit.

now looking this is more than enough to have a reasonable time but am fully aware how young we are and how it might be way to early to do this.

Has anyone here done this so early?, and are there any hidden costs i need to be aware of. The aim, hopefully not to foolishly is to not touch capital at all until heading towards 55, i will also have most of a state pension coming when 67 though don't plan on relying on that. I can also do online work that will top up anything and keep me busy.

We are not that expensive to keep but obviously i don't wanna give up a fairly decent paycheck to find my self in trouble 20 years down the road and be unemployable!
Interesting - your case is quite similar to mine though I am just a teeny bit younger (also in HK currently) and my investments are more risky and not based on real estate. I am still aiming for higher returns so I want to keep current expenses on the low side (RM 8k) to account for the higher risk.
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Old May 16th 2017, 4:13 pm   #54
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

Quote:
Originally Posted by SushiFan View Post
I retired at age 50, and am now living on an MM2H visa in Penang. I am not working. Not in a regular job, and not in some internet-based job.
I would say to both Marchk and xizzles that worrying about future cash flow is of secondary importance. Both of you give the impression that that flow is coming your way sufficiently.
What you need to consider is what you will do after shutting the door on your current occupation. What will you do when you're not occupied any longer? Some people find a way which makes and keeps them happy. Others get overly bored and regret the rest of their lives that they've put themselves on a side track. But this aspect is for each person different, and thus is it difficult to give general advice about it.
Actually, this is the easy part IMHO! I have no shortage of things I want to do - I have a huge backlog of books to read, music to listen and better appreciate, lots of travel I want to do and loads I want to learn. The internet has made it a lot easier to do all this and what would have taken access to a top library before is now available at anyone's fingertips. It seems a pity to not have the time to take advantage of this enormous resource.
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Old May 17th 2017, 6:45 am   #55
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

Well for me it works out about 36000 pounds a year after all taxes etc.

I kinda figured it should be enough and we travel a fair bit. If i want to be sure it would only take a couple of years to push that up to over 40000 a year and that has got to be enough basically anywhere except central London or similar.

i completely take on board the question of what am i going to do with my time, i also have a plan involving travel and a little boat ( though that depends of course!) I do worry i will sit there and think i should of waited. at the moment i am trying to secure the online work while i have a full time job just to get it started and see if its something that is worth doing both for my brain and my wallet.

In truth although we are getting the visa i had thought about me and the wife heading away for a couple of years just traveling 1-3 months in different places and seeing what happens. It gives us time to set up the finances aswell.

I also think the same about malaysia, so we are discussing staying in different places throughout the years, maybe Spain and Greece for as long as the wifes visa can. Malaysia has access, more reasonably than hong kong, to other parts of Asia, good food, beaches etc and a less frontier feel than the Phils or thailand and at least for a good few years it will keep us busy.

After that, not sure how easy it is to plan that far, but am aware the decisions i make now might impact it hugely.
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Old May 17th 2017, 7:23 am   #56
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I am always surprised by how much "aspiring young retired people" put focus on travelling. Travelling 3~4 times per year for a month or so can be fun during your 40's and 50's. But do you still think you will do that if you are 65+ and have visited over 30 places/countries? There will be a time that "running away" from your home, several times per year, to give yourself the impression that you are doing something useful, will make you feel silly.
It is important to find a way to lead a useful life that supports your self-esteem during the periods that you are at home, wherever that home may be.
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Old May 17th 2017, 7:26 am   #57
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Since I quit my job in Europe 3 years ago and moved to MY with MM2H I am feeling much more busy than before. Became a dad feels like a full time job; learning Bahasa and a little bit Mandarin - full time job; take good care of all investments - full time job; buy apartment and fill it with life and things (first time for me, before I always rented and refused the burden of a property) - full time job.

Oh yes, no shortage of things to do. And the "huge backlog of books", i move my head carefully to the left side and see Tolstoi and Foster Wallace still untouched after arriving MY

Last edited by eCdD; May 17th 2017 at 7:31 am.
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Old May 17th 2017, 7:55 am   #58
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

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I am always surprised by how much "aspiring young retired people" put focus on travelling. Travelling 3~4 times per year for a month or so can be fun during your 40's and 50's. But do you still think you will do that if you are 65+ and have visited over 30 places/countries? There will be a time that "running away" from your home, several times per year, to give yourself the impression that you are doing something useful, will make you feel silly.
It is important to find a way to lead a useful life that supports your self-esteem during the periods that you are at home, wherever that home may be.
In truth 65 is 23 years away for me so it would be difficult to guess at what my interests would be that far in the future. Maybe i didn't explain it, the aim was to travel after we stop work for a couple of years to experience other places and decide where we want to make home. I never actually saw us as spending the next 40 years wandering the globe unless we could get an apartment on that cruise ship the world, but that would get old pretty quick i would think. At the moment Malaysia looks really good for us, and it may continue, but i see no real reason to settle at 44 or 45 or what ever i would be

Just to be clear visiting places isn't something we do to make ourselves feel useful? I am not sure where this came from as i personally haven't met any one who has given that as a reason, its enjoyable, interesting and on occasions stunning, but never thought of it as giving myself a Raison d'être. If people over 65 want to go on holiday 7 times a year either, if its something they want and are able to do then good for them. You are right that it probably woundnt be for me to do that much travelling at that point in life, but that said i have zero idea what i will want to do at 65 at the moment, and that's actually quite exciting.

either way, advice noted it is certainly important to have a worthwhile ( to oneself) activity to keep the grey matter ticking over.

Last edited by Marchk; May 17th 2017 at 7:57 am.
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Old May 17th 2017, 8:24 am   #59
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Default Re: Rough budget for living

The big problem with retiring so early is that the odds of a crash are really quite high and, depending on your circumstances, can have a debilitating effect on your finances.
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Old May 17th 2017, 8:56 am   #60
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Yes, it would be an issue. Hopefully with property it would be, income wise, a little more protected but for investments it could be big issue. We are waiting actually as the hang seng is to high at moment, so want to buy for less. It's a dividend share based on the top 50 or whatever companies in HK.
Still hope the phrase as safe as houses is more than a phrase
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