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Old Apr 7th 2018, 2:14 pm   #766
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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Originally Posted by chawkins99 View Post
But why did they arrest him and lock him up in the first place while they investigated?

I never expected him to be convicted (certainly not of murder). A 78 year-old defending his home is not a flight risk and not a danger to the general public. He was defending himself and his property against an armed assailant.

They could have just let him stay home and arrested him later if they found cause.

Now, he has an arrest on his record. As we all know on these boards, that will make it more difficult to travel to the US and other countries. He's now ineligible for VWP due to an arrest.

The UK police simply did not need to arrest him.
They had to follow legal procedure, he HAD killed a man, so he had to be arrested, he had been arrested for (possible) murder and therefore could not be released until they were satisfied that it wasn't murder. The police had, almost certainly, told him there was nothing to worry about, it was just due procedure and they may well have only questioned him for a few minutes then put him into the most comfortable cell they had until the CPS, acting on what the police told them, decided there was insufficient evidence to proceed with anything further. The public should be therefore satisfied on both accounts, he was released with no charge, but the case was correctly investigated and all procedures followed.
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Old Apr 7th 2018, 2:16 pm   #767
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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They had to follow legal procedure, he HAD killed a man, so he had to be arrested, he had been arrested for (possible) murder and therefore could not be released until they were satisfied that it wasn't murder. The police had, almost certainly, told him there was nothing to worry about, it was just due procedure and they may well have only questioned him for a few minutes then put him into the most comfortable cell they had until the CPS, acting on what the police told them, decided there was insufficient evidence to proceed with anything further. The public should be therefore satisfied on both accounts, he was released with no charge, but the case was correctly investigated and all procedures followed.


Yet again the media has everyone up in arms.
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Old Apr 7th 2018, 2:22 pm   #768
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Yet again the media has everyone up in arms.
I suspect the photo that they all used, of him with a couple of Guinesses in his hands might have had something to do with that.
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Old Apr 7th 2018, 2:40 pm   #769
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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They had to follow legal procedure, he HAD killed a man, so he had to be arrested, he had been arrested for (possible) murder and therefore could not be released until they were satisfied that it wasn't murder. The police had, almost certainly, told him there was nothing to worry about, it was just due procedure and they may well have only questioned him for a few minutes then put him into the most comfortable cell they had until the CPS, acting on what the police told them, decided there was insufficient evidence to proceed with anything further. The public should be therefore satisfied on both accounts, he was released with no charge, but the case was correctly investigated and all procedures followed.
Agreed. I see now they're reporting that the intruder was stabbed with his own screwdriver .. I thought in the early reports, they said the householder had stabbed him with a knife. (Not that it makes a lot of difference.)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-face-charges/
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Old Apr 7th 2018, 4:34 pm   #770
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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They had to follow legal procedure, he HAD killed a man, so he had to be arrested, he had been arrested for (possible) murder and therefore could not be released until they were satisfied that it wasn't murder.
Then the legal procedure is wrong.

As I said, the guy now has an arrest record which can never be expunged.

He did nothing wrong. He was defending himself. That would have been clear if the police (as you say) told him there was nothing to worry about.

This is ONE area where I believe the US system is better than the UK. Innocent until proven guilty.
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Old Apr 7th 2018, 7:17 pm   #771
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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Then the legal procedure is wrong.

As I said, the guy now has an arrest record which can never be expunged.

He did nothing wrong. He was defending himself. That would have been clear if the police (as you say) told him there was nothing to worry about.

This is ONE area where I believe the US system is better than the UK. Innocent until proven guilty.
Irrelevant non-sequitur. Being arrested does not in any way carry a presumption of guilt.
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Old Apr 7th 2018, 7:26 pm   #772
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Irrelevant non-sequitur. Being arrested does not in any way carry a presumption of guilt.
Also irrelevant because you still have an arrest on your record which automatically excludes you from VWP.

The point is, his life is changed because he defended himself.
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Old Apr 7th 2018, 10:46 pm   #773
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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Also irrelevant because you still have an arrest on your record which automatically excludes you from VWP.

The point is, his life is changed because he defended himself.
It's the unbelievably prejudicial clause in the VWP that excludes people who've been arrested even if the arrest doesn't result in a conviction which is wrong. That makes the US system a mockery in my book, as this clause not only doesn't use the principle of innocent until proven guilty, it presumes guilt even when innocence is proven!

As for the man who killed the intruder, I'm glad he's been released and won't face any further action. But the fact remains that he was not innocent of the killing. Police absolutely should apprehend anyone who's committed a homicide, determine the facts, and then take the appropriate action.
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Old Apr 8th 2018, 12:04 am   #774
 
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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Also irrelevant because you still have an arrest on your record which automatically excludes you from VWP.

The point is, his life is changed because he defended himself.
The problem lies with the US system. It is they who are presuming some sort of guilt based only on an arrest, and irrespective of the actual guilt or innocence of the arrested person.

When you read a newspaper story, it's very easy to assume guilt or innocence but the police are not going by that. They find a dead body. Should they just take the word of the man who killed him? How are they to know without investigating? Just being elderly just not make you automatically blameless nor, as we have seen, powerless. Additionally, being arrested in the UK confers certain rights upon the arrested person - you get the right to free legal advice and it limits the amount of time you can be held before the police must either charge you or let you go.
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Old Apr 14th 2018, 12:59 pm   #775
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

Supermarket pesto contains 'substitute' ingredients - BBC News

What?? Is nothing sacred? Potato starch, sugar, bamboo fibres?
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Old Apr 14th 2018, 1:04 pm   #776
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Supermarket pesto contains 'substitute' ingredients - BBC News

What?? Is nothing sacred? Potato starch, sugar, bamboo fibres?
We make our own each summer from our home grown hydroponic basil and freeze it in giant ice cube moulds. Easy, tastes wonderful and no weird substitute ingredients.
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Old Apr 14th 2018, 1:19 pm   #777
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We make our own each summer from our home grown hydroponic basil and freeze it in giant ice cube moulds. Easy, tastes wonderful and no weird substitute ingredients.
Sounds good
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Old Apr 14th 2018, 2:27 pm   #778
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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We make our own each summer from our home grown hydroponic basil and freeze it in giant ice cube moulds. Easy, tastes wonderful and no weird substitute ingredients.
Homemade Pesto is fab. Most of the commercial stuff over here uses cashew nuts rather than pine nuts, it's just not the same. Mind you practically every dip sold here has cashew nuts in it, it's a bit odd.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 3:53 pm   #779
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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Supermarket pesto contains 'substitute' ingredients - BBC News

What?? Is nothing sacred? Potato starch, sugar, bamboo fibres?
A lot of fuss over nothing very much, IMO.

If you want an 'authentic' pesto, make it at home but don't expect a shelf life of more than a few days. If you want to buy a commercially produced jar of the stuff, expect it to have some emulsifiers, thickening agents and preservatives in it. At least the added ingredients seem to consist mostly of plant fibres and starches, not synthetic gums.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 8:03 pm   #780
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A lot of fuss over nothing very much, IMO.

If you want an 'authentic' pesto, make it at home but don't expect a shelf life of more than a few days. If you want to buy a commercially produced jar of the stuff, expect it to have some emulsifiers, thickening agents and preservatives in it. At least the added ingredients seem to consist mostly of plant fibres and starches, not synthetic gums.
Isn't that the point of this thread? Stuff that gets British folk all steamed up would be a lot of fuss over nothing anywhere else (weather being a case in point.)
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