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Old Sep 24th 2017, 6:41 pm   #346
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Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
I have never understood why the entire population funds the bill for rescuing people who get their kicks from relatively risky activities. That is especially so, now that coast guard air rescue has been carved out of the RAF where at least helicopter rescues arguably had some practice/ training benefit for RAF pilots and crews.
Because nobody actually involved wants this. The mountain rescue services are local volunteers and the RAF view it as valuable training.
Calls for charges come from those not involved in the rescue nor it seems most times from the risk group, who tend to be big contributors to the Mountain Rescue teams via donations.
The whole issue of funding via insurance is a manufactured red herring.

I'd like to hear more about the "now that coast guard air rescue has been carved out of the RAF" issue though, as I am out of date.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 7:18 pm   #347
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Because nobody actually involved wants this. ....
Well, nobody apart from the tax payer who is "involved" by sometimes picking up a substantial part of the tab, especially when large and/or expensive equipment is needed. .....Yes I know a lot of "hands on" rescuers, and organizations such as the RNLI are volunteer-run and charitable institution.
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.... I'd like to hear more about the "now that coast guard air rescue has been carved out of the RAF" issue though, as I am out of date.
News from 4½ years ago.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 7:25 pm   #348
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If only it was that simple.

They should always send people the bill, by default, and I envisage a "hikers and sailors insurance policy", which for a modest sum would pay out in the event that you need to be rescued, whether from a mountain, cave, cliff, river, lake, or the coast/sea.

I have never understood why the entire population funds the bill for rescuing people who get their kicks from relatively risky activities. That is especially so, now that coast guard air rescue has been carved out of the RAF where at least helicopter rescues arguably had some practice/ training benefit for RAF pilots and crews.
But it should be that easy Pulaski, it should be; - and it’s NOT just the domestically stupid either. The classic case was some years back, you might recall it?
A retired couple bought a yacht and decided to sail around the globe. Their route took them past a known trouble spot, Somalia, where Pirates operated. The Royal Navy warned them not once, not twice, but three times (and depending on whose version you believe [and I do] FOUR times) not to go into the area. They did, got kidnapped, putting RN personnel at risk if rescue had been ordered, and the taxpayer footing the bill.
After another feat of weak-kneed diplomacy to the local war-lords the two imbeciles were released and…………... let go on their way.
Now, if instead they had been faced with a gigantic bill; - financed by the forfeiture of the yacht, home, and other assets;- stripped bare - yes, they might have been considered to be harshly treated, but AN EXAMPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE. Actions have consequences – and these stupid old fogies would have been the example.
As you can tell these kinds of cretins really, really, do wind-me-up……………
(Now excuse me while I put my head in a bucket of Ice-water)
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 7:33 pm   #349
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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But it should be that easy Pulaski, it should be; - and it’s NOT just the domestically stupid either. The classic case was some years back, you might recall it?
A retired couple bought a yacht and decided to sail around the globe. Their route took them past a known trouble spot, Somalia, where Pirates operated. The Royal Navy warned them not once, not twice, but three times (and depending on whose version you believe [and I do] FOUR times) not to go into the area. They did, got kidnapped, putting RN personnel at risk if rescue had been ordered, and the taxpayer footing the bill.
After another feat of weak-kneed diplomacy to the local war-lords the two imbeciles were released and…………... let go on their way.
Now, if instead they had been faced with a gigantic bill; - financed by the forfeiture of the yacht, home, and other assets;- stripped bare - yes, they might have been considered to be harshly treated, but AN EXAMPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE. Actions have consequences – and these stupid old fogies would have been the example.
As you can tell these kinds of cretins really, really, do wind-me-up……………
(Now excuse me while I put my head in a bucket of Ice-water)
Oh I agreed 200%, and KIS is looking at it from the wrong end, insurance being forced on people who don't want it. If you started suing people for the cost of rescue then the demand would very quickly appear, most likely as a small add-on to homeowners insurance, or a stand alone policy like renters insurance. Off-shore yachting would warrant a higher premium.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 7:44 pm   #350
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Thanks, that does ring some bells.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 8:03 pm   #351
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Well, nobody apart from the tax payer who is "involved" by sometimes picking up a substantial part of the tab, especially when large and/or expensive equipment is needed. .....
In the example given there would be no cost to tax payers beyond the call from police to mountain rescue.
It is a bit sad that we as a society view a walk a few miles from a road as risky, putting one foot in front of the other on moderately inclined grassy ground. An activity that was day to day for most of humanity for most of history. Simple skills lost to many of us
I have gotten additional insurance for travel in remote landscapes outside of the UK and insurance for actual mountaineering seems reasonable, but I think it would be a sorry time that it be needed for newbies and the naive who are only a few miles from the road on relatively benign ground. When voluntary groups are prepared to help. It would severely reduce opportunities for introducing many to places like the Lakes beyond the car parks and laybys.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 8:09 pm   #352
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Default Re: WTF back in the UK

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In the example given there would be no cost to tax payers beyond the call from police to mountain rescue.
It is a bit sad that we as a society view a walk a few miles from a road as risky, putting one foot in front of the other on moderately inclined grassy ground. An activity that was day to day for most of humanity for most of history. Simple skills lost to many of us
I have gotten additional insurance for travel in remote landscapes outside of the UK and insurance for actual mountaineering seems reasonable, but I think it would be a sorry time that it be needed for newbies and the naive who are only a few miles from the road on relatively benign ground. When voluntary groups are prepared to help. It would severely reduce opportunities for introducing many to places like the Lakes beyond the car parks and laybys.
Perhaps if some of these hikers took an experienced guide with them, some of these issues could be resolved.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 10:21 pm   #353
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Perhaps if some of these hikers took an experienced guide with them, some of these issues could be resolved.
No one is going to take a guide to walk of two miles from a pub on grass. No one thinks ahead that that might be a problem. The Ghyll they were at is two miles from the Wasdale Head pub.
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Last edited by kimilseung; Sep 24th 2017 at 11:09 pm. Reason: its further than I thought, 2 miles not 1
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Old Sep 26th 2017, 4:01 pm   #354
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Oh no, the UK is messing with DNA again. I'm surprised none of the religious brigade spoke up about this one. Men are different to mice.

expert reaction to first UK results of genome editing in human embryos | Science Media Centre
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Old Sep 30th 2017, 6:55 am   #355
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AirBnB beginning to have problems, mortgage providers telling them that letting part of their house for AirBnB is breaking contract.

https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/sh...090944927.html
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Old Sep 30th 2017, 10:33 am   #356
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AirBnB beginning to have problems, mortgage providers telling them that letting part of their house for AirBnB is breaking contract.

https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/sh...090944927.html
Quite so! Can't have that.
I mean, their missing their shovel-full of lucre out of it....
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Old Sep 30th 2017, 10:35 am   #357
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Quite so! Can't have that.
I mean, their missing their shovel-full of lucre out of it....
I suppose the biggest worry is that it may well invalidate their home insurance, which is what the home owners should really be concerned with.
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Old Oct 1st 2017, 10:09 am   #358
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No one is going to take a guide to walk of two miles from a pub on grass. No one thinks ahead that that might be a problem. The Ghyll they were at is two miles from the Wasdale Head pub.
My twin brother has been a member of the Lake District mountain rescue for more yrs than either of us cares to remember. The tales he could tell.. However he always said he volunteered to help people ,because most want to be in the mountains ,most are not experts,but he is. It is impossible to describe how fast the weather changes there. How perfectly safe a path is one minute, and how deadly the next. He would rather people get up,get out and walk and yes sometimes get into trouble Than have no experience of our wonderful countryside.

Health and safety? bah humbug.We are teaching people to be less self reliant,not take risks..This is not good for human evolution.

Plus...in most cases those rescued are very grateful and donate to the service.

( It's b****d his knees though...another op next month
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Old Oct 1st 2017, 11:23 am   #359
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What? Why? Ewwwww!
Buckinghamshire woman turns her own labia into jewellry | Daily Mail Online
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Old Oct 1st 2017, 11:33 am   #360
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Nasty!
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