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View Poll Results: Climate change is an objective fact, but manmade global warming?
Climate change is 99% nature and 1% human nurture 2 25.00%
Global warming is a human induced cancer upon this globe 6 75.00%
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Old Oct 20th 2017, 8:28 am   #1
I still dont believe it..
 
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Default Climate change - the discussion anvil

Ive decided its time to light the blue touch paper on this subject, first, are you a believer in global warming - and whats your take on this?
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Old Oct 20th 2017, 8:42 am   #2
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

My view is that climate science is big business. It directly employs globally tens of thousands of civil servants and tens of thousands of scientists who all have a vested interest.

In addition they have monetised their industry by demonising and profiting from one element involved - carbon.

Historical global temperature change is hard fact. The current doomsayers are talking about the a 2 degree increase. Historically thinking in geological timespans isnt easy but a completely natural 17 degree change has been seen, we are but ants crawling on this all powerful sphere.

For those who say - well its currently so fast a change - look at the paintings of breugel and consider when the thames in the uk used to freeze solid in winter a few hundred years ago, mini ice ages and mini hot houses are real.

Some facts:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geol...erature_record
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Old Oct 20th 2017, 4:12 pm   #3
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

I am a simple soul.I measure global warming like this .....It is now late October.If I do not wear socks with my sandals by late November,here in southern Europe, I shall believe that things are heating up a bit earlier.AND I think I read in the British press that Tesco has been buying ripe satsumas with GREEN peel because it has been extra hot & have not changed to ORANGE peel!
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Old Oct 20th 2017, 4:24 pm   #4
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

Here, some of the sweetest oranges are green, heck, even grapefruit are sweet.
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Old Oct 20th 2017, 11:18 pm   #5
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

Quote:
Originally Posted by uk_grenada View Post
My view is that climate science is big business. It directly employs globally tens of thousands of civil servants and tens of thousands of scientists who all have a vested interest.

In addition they have monetised their industry by demonising and profiting from one element involved - carbon.

Historical global temperature change is hard fact. The current doomsayers are talking about the a 2 degree increase. Historically thinking in geological timespans isnt easy but a completely natural 17 degree change has been seen, we are but ants crawling on this all powerful sphere.

For those who say - well its currently so fast a change - look at the paintings of breugel and consider when the thames in the uk used to freeze solid in winter a few hundred years ago, mini ice ages and mini hot houses are real.

Some facts:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geol...erature_record
I like your analogies. I have skated on frozen canals in the Netherlands in 1984,1985,and 1986.. jUst as in a Bruegel painting.The whole country froze for three yrs in a row. Before that the eleven towns race (skating on the frozen canals ) had not been held for the previous 25 yrs. I don't think it has been held since that time either...We go through cycles . We always have done. Whether there is anything we as humans can do about it?
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Old Oct 21st 2017, 10:15 pm   #6
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

Water freezes water melts but climate theories aside we could be a lot more responsible for the environment than we are.

The recent news that 75% of insects have perished in the last 30 years and by 2020 two thirds of wild animals will have gone it's pretty safe to say our impact in this planet is of negative value.

The corporate world's desire to make money and feed our unrelenting appetite to consume at some point will have to stop. Question is will it be because we see sense or because we watch our own drawn out demise.

Earth will recover new species will evolve and then the sun will blow up or in a million or so years some six limbed creature could be sat at desk with your skull on it contemplating if your name was Yorick, I personally hope by then that Coyote will have caught Roadrunner.
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Old Oct 21st 2017, 10:35 pm   #7
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

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Originally Posted by Chatter Static View Post
Water freezes water melts but climate theories aside we could be a lot more responsible for the environment than we are.

The recent news that 75% of insects have perished in the last 30 years and by 2020 two thirds of wild animals will have gone it's pretty safe to say our impact in this planet is of negative value.

The corporate world's desire to make money and feed our unrelenting appetite to consume at some point will have to stop. Question is will it be because we see sense or because we watch our own drawn out demise.

Earth will recover new species will evolve and then the sun will blow up or in a million or so years some six limbed creature could be sat at desk with your skull on it contemplating if your name was Yorick, I personally hope by then that Coyote will have caught Roadrunner.


I think its in billions of years rather than miliions - however

What will the last human words hear on earth be?

'I wonder what that button does?'

Stalin created the tsar bomba the worlds biggest man made explosion, that went from ground to the edge of space, he wanted it to be twice as powerful but his scientists knew this would be irrelevant. It didnt cause any issues for the globe, but then an incoming meteor / asteroid would be many orders of magnitude more energy and we only have to look at our moon [mare imbreum] to see what that did [the surface of a lot of the moon was covered in its own magma.]

I believe, that our environment is actually almost entirely self regulating but that doesnt mean our current size of population would survive such regulation, certainly we might have to entirely relocate to the poles or equator or move underground - not impossible. If the regulation followed a meteor or similar, almost everyone wouldnt be able to react of course.

Our atmosphere leaks gas, but it also gets incoming matter so i dont think we will lose it easily, a large meteor could wipe 99.99% of life out, actually there seems agreement that it could have happened before, plate tectonics means that aeons ago there might have been a civilisation totally wiped out of our view.

I do like Greg Bears view - our only long term salvation is to get to the point where we can populate other planets and use their resources. But then we might meet the vogon road engineers from the hitch hikers guide first :-)
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Old Oct 22nd 2017, 6:47 am   #8
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

As a geologist who studied climate change at Uni (admittedly I may be a bit behind the times now) I believe that climate change is a natural phenomenon (on the whole), however, it is obvious that human activity has also contributed to the effects that we see today. Be it 1% or 2%, 5% or whatever quantity, we have still added to it.
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Old Oct 22nd 2017, 9:02 am   #9
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

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Originally Posted by jam25mack View Post
As a geologist who studied climate change at Uni (admittedly I may be a bit behind the times now) I believe that climate change is a natural phenomenon (on the whole), however, it is obvious that human activity has also contributed to the effects that we see today. Be it 1% or 2%, 5% or whatever quantity, we have still added to it.
That's about the size of it imo.. Man(and I say man because i haven't seen many women involved in the dumping and dispoiling) Has an appalling track record in just fouling up the land and the sea's. Nature did not create the five hundred + mile sea of garbage in the pacific. Nor the hulls of ships left littering the coastline's of many countries. including Alaska. It didn't dump nuclear waste in leaking barrels in the river close to Seattle. Or allow radioactive material to leak into our seas around (whatever the new name is )of the now defunct power station in Cumbria. Nature didn't create the disaster that was Chernobyl,or the one in Japan. etc etc.
Man has been disgustingly 'Gung ho' about this one inhabitable planet..We have no where else to go.So a little more care in the future would be welcome
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Old Oct 22nd 2017, 9:09 am   #10
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

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Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
That's about the size of it imo.. Man(and I say man because i haven't seen many women involved in the dumping and dispoiling) Has an appalling track record in just fouling up the land and the sea's. Nature did not create the five hundred + mile sea of garbage in the pacific. Nor the hulls of ships left littering the coastline's of many countries. including Alaska. It didn't dump nuclear waste in leaking barrels in the river close to Seattle. Or allow radioactive material to leak into our seas around (whatever the new name is )of the now defunct power station in Cumbria. Nature didn't create the disaster that was Chernobyl,or the one in Japan. etc etc.
Man has been disgustingly 'Gung ho' about this one inhabitable planet..We have no where else to go.So a little more care in the future would be welcome
But it's not only about the rubbish we dump. People generally eat more meat than they did in older times. This has a double impact on the environment - land is cleared to farm foods for livestock, and the volumes of livestock increase greenhouse gasses significantly.
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Old Oct 22nd 2017, 9:26 am   #11
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But it's not only about the rubbish we dump. People generally eat more meat than they did in older times. This has a double impact on the environment - land is cleared to farm foods for livestock, and the volumes of livestock increase greenhouse gasses significantly.
Watching QI last night it was stated that American scientists have stated we have more tree's on the planet than they ever imagined. Despite man chopping down huge swathes of forest etc. There is also the argument that we live in a more oxygenated world than that of the dinosaurs ,who created vast amounts of toxic gas . And yet we came into being and thrived,

I.think,because we can think,we credit ourselves with far too much influence.Clean up our own little act sure. whether it will make a scrap of difference to the mighty natural evolution of our planet ?
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Old Oct 22nd 2017, 2:03 pm   #12
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

This is quite educational

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gDE...ature=youtu.be
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Old Oct 22nd 2017, 5:49 pm   #13
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Watching QI last night it was stated that American scientists have stated we have more tree's on the planet than they ever imagined. Despite man chopping down huge swathes of forest etc. There is also the argument that we live in a more oxygenated world than that of the dinosaurs ,who created vast amounts of toxic gas . And yet we came into being and thrived,

I.think,because we can think,we credit ourselves with far too much influence.Clean up our own little act sure. whether it will make a scrap of difference to the mighty natural evolution of our planet ?
Dinosaurs = toxic gas it's a bit like a certain politician blaming the current environmental conditions on the greater number of cows around now farting and causing issues.

I'd rather believe the doomsayers and reduce dramatically carbon output rather than politically motivated naysayers who get big donations from lobbyist's. Far to many supposedly intelligent people cherry pick facts and fill the gaps with absolute twaddle and pass it off as fact.

On a side note modern lightbulbs piss me off.....
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Old Oct 29th 2017, 5:13 am   #14
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Default Re: Climate change - the discussion anvil

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Watching QI last night it was stated that American scientists have stated we have more tree's on the planet than they ever imagined. Despite man chopping down huge swathes of forest etc. There is also the argument that we live in a more oxygenated world than that of the dinosaurs ,who created vast amounts of toxic gas . And yet we came into being and thrived,

I.think,because we can think,we credit ourselves with far too much influence.Clean up our own little act sure. whether it will make a scrap of difference to the mighty natural evolution of our planet ?
... imo, what will finally do for us is all the c*** we toss in the oceans. Bad enough up to date, but now we're infiltrating these tiny plastic pellets into the marine life chain, it's a certainty!
... in 10 trillion years some intelligence will speculate that 'Humanous-stupidous' was basically an advanced strain of Neanderthals, whose diet consisted of plastic bags & coke bottles in between rounds of trying to exterminate each other.
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