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Old Apr 26th 2012, 11:50 am   #1
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Default What windows and doors ??

Hi All,

Just thinking about replacing our old wooden windows, shutters and doors. They are quite cold in the winter.
I was speaking to a window sales person last week and he mentioned that there is currently a government subsidy where you claim 50% of the cost. Apparently, it is being scrapped at the end of the year.
Does anyone know much about it and what would we have to do to qualify?

Also, originally when we bought the house i had a vision of all wooded windows and doors but now knowing a little more about them i'm not sure i want the hassle of re-applying new varnish every couple of years.

The salesman was selling pvc and aluminum coated with woodgrain effect laminate.
Does anyone have this type as i am a bit dubious about the laminate coating as in england years ago i was told that laminate would likely bubble & discolour in strong sunlight.

The other option is for painted pvc or aluminium but it is slightly more expensive.

Any ideas?
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Old Apr 26th 2012, 8:00 pm   #2
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

I put a couple of new doors in last year and the company that made and fitted them gave me a certificate which I can use to offset the cost against my income tax, this is the way in which the subsidy is paid. There are a few rules governing this (like you can only pay by bonifico). According to our accountant various home improvements benefit from this arrangement - basically anything that improves energy efficiency (I also enjoyed this tax break fitting a new CH boiler) I believe it may also be applicable to security improvements.
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Old Apr 26th 2012, 10:13 pm   #3
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeldimana View Post
Hi All,

Just thinking about replacing our old wooden windows, shutters and doors. They are quite cold in the winter.
I was speaking to a window sales person last week and he mentioned that there is currently a government subsidy where you claim 50% of the cost. Apparently, it is being scrapped at the end of the year.
Does anyone know much about it and what would we have to do to qualify?

Also, originally when we bought the house i had a vision of all wooded windows and doors but now knowing a little more about them i'm not sure i want the hassle of re-applying new varnish every couple of years.

The salesman was selling pvc and aluminum coated with woodgrain effect laminate.
Does anyone have this type as i am a bit dubious about the laminate coating as in england years ago i was told that laminate would likely bubble & discolour in strong sunlight.

The other option is for painted pvc or aluminium but it is slightly more expensive.

Any ideas?
Hello, a perfect question here.
Go for timber. Price wise cheeper than aluminium and more expensive than pvc, but far more sustainable environmentally. Maintenance every 8-10 years in normal conditions, maybe every 3-4years in harsh marine environment.
You can recoup 55% in tax till end of this year, (next year 35%) because you are improving in energy performance and anyone can qualify, but you need an income to be able to detract (not really advisable to pensioners), otherwise you apply for 10%IVA as renovation of first home. You need to fill in a form to send to ENEA (gov. agency) within 90days from end of works/installation. pay by bonifico. Home renovations with energy performance will become key in the coming years all over Europe because we will be paying a carbon tax (2014-15?) according to the energy band of your home. The lower the band the more you pay. 90-95% of all homes in Italy are in class G. You can also climb the energy bands by installing efficient heating systems, but you will get most of the benefits by insulating well your house (but don't exaggerate especially if you live in southern Italy) and consider natural ventilation.
As architect and building energy certifier (from June, as I am still training!) I would recommend changing single glass windows, or at least the glass only to double glass windows. It will reduce heating costs and give you better living spaces.
Double coating properly done should be standard. Look for an artisan rather than big commercial companies. They al usually certify parts.

Last edited by homeandgardens; Apr 26th 2012 at 10:16 pm.
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Old Apr 27th 2012, 6:17 am   #4
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeldimana View Post
Hi All,

Just thinking about replacing our old wooden windows, shutters and doors. They are quite cold in the winter.
I was speaking to a window sales person last week and he mentioned that there is currently a government subsidy where you claim 50% of the cost. Apparently, it is being scrapped at the end of the year.
Does anyone know much about it and what would we have to do to qualify?

Also, originally when we bought the house i had a vision of all wooded windows and doors but now knowing a little more about them i'm not sure i want the hassle of re-applying new varnish every couple of years.

The salesman was selling pvc and aluminum coated with woodgrain effect laminate.
Does anyone have this type as i am a bit dubious about the laminate coating as in england years ago i was told that laminate would likely bubble & discolour in strong sunlight.

The other option is for painted pvc or aluminium but it is slightly more expensive.
Any ideas?


Why painted PVC? Why not just normal PVC? Don't think I've ever heard of painted PVC.

Anyway - if the money back incentive is being scrapped at the end of the year it makes no difference to you whatsoever as it gets declared in your next tax papers which will be next year.

This is how it's supposed to work.

Get windows in and windows people give you an invoice and a certificate which states type of glass replaced and energy savings etc.

Pay with a bonifico and use the special code for the tax purposes.

Register with ENEA for the detrazione fiscale. You can do it online and send in copies of papers but when I had a look at it, I decided it was too complicated so I left everything in the hands of an architect. By all accounts architects do this all the time and know exactly how to fill out the forms.

Wait until the next tax year and give all the papers to your commercialista or the person who does your 730 or whatever.

The money back is given over the next 10 years of tax refunds so no way will you get it all back next year.

I had some windows replaced last August and it's only now that I'm taking the papers to our accountant along with last year's dentist bills and OH's work CUD etc. I had the windows invoice and everything put in OH's name as I do not do tax papers so it wouldn't have worked in my name.

Hope that helps along with what the others have said.
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Old Apr 27th 2012, 6:50 am   #5
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

Ok, i'll have a think about the tax rebate and will sort that later.

What about laminated windows? Anyone have any good or bad experiences with bubbling, or fading quickly, etc ??

Thanks
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Old Apr 27th 2012, 8:13 pm   #6
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

'The money back is given over the next 10 years of tax refunds so no way will you get it all back next year'.

Important point by Lorna. Ask a lot of questions from anyone who says that you can claim it all up-front.
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Old Apr 27th 2012, 8:52 pm   #7
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

Six years ago when we replaced our old one glass wooden frame windows, we were given the following options:

wood frame in and out
UPVC frame in and out
aluminium in and out/taglio termico
Aluminium frame outside, wood frame inside, all painted white, double glazed

We chose the last version which is the most expensive, but at the same time the most durable. Six years later and they look as new from the outside, however, had some hairline cracks in the oak wood frame in the bathroom and kitchen due to condensation.
Knowing what I know now, I would replace the basement windows in the future with UPVC due to higher humidity in the air where we live.

I would never choose wood frames on the outside as they are high maintenance and you will have problems with humidity.
I have noticed that the Italians like dark wood frames and they even choose UPVC windows with the wood effect on them, but I hate it, it looks so artificial.
Almost all of our neighbours have the dark wood windows, but we have had so many compliments for the white frame windows and white shutters.

By laminated windows do you mean the UPVC with the fake wood grain effect?
Also, the bigger the space between the 2 glass panes in the double glazing, the better heat/noise insulation is achieved.
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Old Apr 27th 2012, 9:45 pm   #8
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isakat View Post
Six years ago when we replaced our old one glass wooden frame windows, we were given the following options:

wood frame in and out
UPVC frame in and out
aluminium in and out/taglio termico
Aluminium frame outside, wood frame inside, all painted white, double glazed

We chose the last version which is the most expensive, but at the same time the most durable. Six years later and they look as new from the outside, however, had some hairline cracks in the oak wood frame in the bathroom and kitchen due to condensation.
Knowing what I know now, I would replace the basement windows in the future with UPVC due to higher humidity in the air where we live.

I would never choose wood frames on the outside as they are high maintenance and you will have problems with humidity.
I have noticed that the Italians like dark wood frames and they even choose UPVC windows with the wood effect on them, but I hate it, it looks so artificial.
Almost all of our neighbours have the dark wood windows, but we have had so many compliments for the white frame windows and white shutters.

By laminated windows do you mean the UPVC with the fake wood grain effect?
Also, the bigger the space between the 2 glass panes in the double glazing, the better heat/noise insulation is achieved.
My parents house has timber windows inside and outside and after 10 years they still look fine. It all depends on craftsmanship, weather conditions and use. I always suggest a good solid timber window because at the end of its life cycle you will still have to pay for sending them to scrap and for environmental costs. 8 windows will usually cost 400-500 euros to scrap + a whole lot of space in the all ready crowded dump. On the other hand aluminium windows look nice and sleek, and can't really object on the aesthetics. PVC has very good thermal performance, but I really abhor them, maybe for having specified so many in past projects!.
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Old Apr 27th 2012, 10:17 pm   #9
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

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My parents house has timber windows inside and outside and after 10 years they still look fine. It all depends on craftsmanship, weather conditions and use. I always suggest a good solid timber window because at the end of its life cycle you will still have to pay for sending them to scrap and for environmental costs. 8 windows will usually cost 400-500 euros to scrap + a whole lot of space in the all ready crowded dump. On the other hand aluminium windows look nice and sleek, and can't really object on the aesthetics. PVC has very good thermal performance, but I really abhor them, maybe for having specified so many in past projects!.
It didn't cost us a penny to take my very old wood windows off to the ecological centre. The window men removed them and left them outside. OH smashed the glass out of them and put that in a big old bin and put the bin and the wood frames in the back of his car.
Lots of people near me have white PVC and so did we. The double glazing is amazing in them. I had one very old and very heavy wooden blind changed to a lighter pvc one - in brown. I like the green ones but most of them around me are brown. Have seen lots of green ones and even burgundy coloured ones in new builds.
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Old Apr 28th 2012, 8:03 am   #10
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

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It didn't cost us a penny to take my very old wood windows off to the ecological centre. The window men removed them and left them outside. OH smashed the glass out of them and put that in a big old bin and put the bin and the wood frames in the back of his car.
Lots of people near me have white PVC and so did we. The double glazing is amazing in them. I had one very old and very heavy wooden blind changed to a lighter pvc one - in brown. I like the green ones but most of them around me are brown. Have seen lots of green ones and even burgundy coloured ones in new builds.
We don'teven have to take our old ones to the ecological centre. We just phone the bin men for an appointment to have them picked up.

I'm with H&G in hating pvc windows. We had them put in 5yrs ago in Turin and while the do their job very well, they are dull and have lost their sparkle. They also get incredibly dirty. Here in Vr we have wooden ones. They need a little more TLC, but are much nicer IMO. A friend had the woodgrain effect aluminium type put in last year and they do look nice. No idea what their wear and tear will be like though.

Remember to check if there are any town hall requirements on the type to be used.
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Old Apr 29th 2012, 5:59 am   #11
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Default Re: What windows and doors ??

Ive looked at the pvc and aluminium frames and there doesnt seem to much to choose between them visually.
I think that they look better now than compared to what they looked like say 10 or 15 years ago.

I dont think i mind the look too much. In fact, last year we were invited to our neighbours new retirement apartment for a meal and when i complimented his new wooden windows, they actually turned out to be aluminium.

About ten years ago i did some work at a pvc door manufacturer in the UK and was told that pvc laminated wood grain may bubble in strong sunlight. Especially, if south facing.
So, what's so different about these doors and windows?


Would they bubble, peel or fade if i went for pvc or aluminium?
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