Stolen Cheques
Apr 16th 2010, 4:45 pm
#31
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Location: salerno
Posts: 356
Re: Stolen Cheques
Cheque books issued before april 2008 are still considered valid - therefore your cheque for eur 1.730 was legally negotiable.
Because the cheque was under eur 3.000 it was negotiated in "check truncation", this, as you have unfornately found out, means that your bank doesn't see the cheque but debits the amount automatically from your account if funds are sufficient.
Banks therefore hide behind the fact that they can't possibily be expected to check all the signatures on the hundreds/thousands of cheques negotiated everyday via chk truncation. It's up to the client to advise their bank that their chq book has been stolen.
The police can only try and find out who the amount was paid to and hopefully trace it back to who stole your chqs. Extremely unlikely you'll get a quick answer - it could take years.
However, you could try appealing to the "ombudsman bancario" - you'll find the form in your bank - explain what happened and cite case number 3771/2006. The case was similar to yours - the signature wasn't a forgery but completely different - and the Bank had to recredit the funds.
It's worth a try. It might even work if you just tell your bank that you're going to appeal. Banks are scared of the ombudsman.
sorry if I've repeated things already said-I tend to get carried away !!!!
Apr 16th 2010, 5:01 pm
#32
Giorgio Miles
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
Re: Stolen Cheques
The new law (april 2008) states that all new cheque books must be "non trasferibile" ie the cheque can only be paid to the beneficiary you indicate. However, cheques under eur 5.000 can still be "trasferibile" (to get a "trasferibile" cheque book you pay a stamp duty).
Cheque books issued before april 2008 are still considered valid - therefore your cheque for eur 1.730 was legally negotiable.
Because the cheque was under eur 3.000 it was negotiated in "check truncation", this, as you have unfornately found out, means that your bank doesn't see the cheque but debits the amount automatically from your account if funds are sufficient.
Banks therefore hide behind the fact that they can't possibily be expected to check all the signatures on the hundreds/thousands of cheques negotiated everyday via chk truncation. It's up to the client to advise their bank that their chq book has been stolen.
The police can only try and find out who the amount was paid to and hopefully trace it back to who stole your chqs. Extremely unlikely you'll get a quick answer - it could take years.
However, you could try appealing to the "ombudsman bancario" - you'll find the form in your bank - explain what happened and cite case number 3771/2006. The case was similar to yours - the signature wasn't a forgery but completely different - and the Bank had to recredit the funds.
It's worth a try. It might even work if you just tell your bank that you're going to appeal. Banks are scared of the ombudsman.
sorry if I've repeated things already said-I tend to get carried away !!!!
Cheque books issued before april 2008 are still considered valid - therefore your cheque for eur 1.730 was legally negotiable.
Because the cheque was under eur 3.000 it was negotiated in "check truncation", this, as you have unfornately found out, means that your bank doesn't see the cheque but debits the amount automatically from your account if funds are sufficient.
Banks therefore hide behind the fact that they can't possibily be expected to check all the signatures on the hundreds/thousands of cheques negotiated everyday via chk truncation. It's up to the client to advise their bank that their chq book has been stolen.
The police can only try and find out who the amount was paid to and hopefully trace it back to who stole your chqs. Extremely unlikely you'll get a quick answer - it could take years.
However, you could try appealing to the "ombudsman bancario" - you'll find the form in your bank - explain what happened and cite case number 3771/2006. The case was similar to yours - the signature wasn't a forgery but completely different - and the Bank had to recredit the funds.
It's worth a try. It might even work if you just tell your bank that you're going to appeal. Banks are scared of the ombudsman.
sorry if I've repeated things already said-I tend to get carried away !!!!
Cheers
Apr 16th 2010, 7:05 pm
#33
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Joined: Jan 2010
Location: salerno
Posts: 356
Re: Stolen Cheques
I immagine that the change of name has meant that you have been issued with a new codice fiscale. This means that your old "anagrafe" on the bank's records has to be deleted and therefore you need to open a new account. If your cod fisc hasn't changed, there's no reason that the account can't be "transferred" under your new name.
Apr 16th 2010, 7:23 pm
#34
Giorgio Miles
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
Re: Stolen Cheques
I immagine that the change of name has meant that you have been issued with a new codice fiscale. This means that your old "anagrafe" on the bank's records has to be deleted and therefore you need to open a new account. If your cod fisc hasn't changed, there's no reason that the account can't be "transferred" under your new name.
What really bugs me is paying Swansea about £70 to change the name on my licence. They are still trying to fine me for not taxing my car - even though I sent them the notice of permanent export.
Apr 16th 2010, 8:47 pm
#35
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Verona/ Nr Turin
Posts: 4,671
Re: Stolen Cheques
I immagine that the change of name has meant that you have been issued with a new codice fiscale. This means that your old "anagrafe" on the bank's records has to be deleted and therefore you need to open a new account. If your cod fisc hasn't changed, there's no reason that the account can't be "transferred" under your new name.
Apr 17th 2010, 8:07 pm
#36
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Joined: Jan 2010
Location: salerno
Posts: 356
Re: Stolen Cheques
the same procedure used when companies change name but keep the same partita iva could be applied to private clients - but I doubt it's ever been done because any change of name would result in a new cod fisc being issued !
May 21st 2010, 11:25 am
#37
Giorgio Miles
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
Re: Stolen Cheques
The 30 days I gave the bank are almost up but on checking with the Banking Ombudsman service I have to give them 60 days. When the 30 days are up I will send a follow up letter giving them the further 30 days. All very annoying.
I want to change the bank account over to my new name but am concerned that the papers I am given to sign will include a statement absolving them of any liability arising from the account I currently hold. Not worth the risk!
I want to change the bank account over to my new name but am concerned that the papers I am given to sign will include a statement absolving them of any liability arising from the account I currently hold. Not worth the risk!
May 21st 2010, 12:57 pm
#38
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Location: Province of Vicenza
Posts: 19,036
Re: Stolen Cheques
No joy from the bank yet then 
May 21st 2010, 1:27 pm
#39
Giorgio Miles
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Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
May 21st 2010, 1:29 pm
#40
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Location: Province of Vicenza
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Re: Stolen Cheques
Miserable and ignorant swines.
They might be thinking that you'll give up so don't.
They might be thinking that you'll give up so don't.
May 21st 2010, 6:16 pm
#41
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Re: Stolen Cheques
the 30 days start from the date of receipt of the letter-if they do bother replying you'll get a letter long after the due date but it will be dated the thirtieth day from receipt !!!!
The ombudsman should get back to you with a reply within 90 days - that's the time limit given on their web site.
May 21st 2010, 6:42 pm
#42
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Location: Province of Vicenza
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Re: Stolen Cheques
They never ever do send out any customer care kind of letters.
Years ago I had a fight in my bank about a missing 200 thousand lire. Peanuts to them but loads to me. I could prove I hadn't used it, spent it, direct debited it or anything at all. They were very shruggy shoulders and nonchalant about it all whilst I looked like a rabid dog. They even told me to keep my voice down which just made me raise it even more and turn around to all the others in line saying,
"keep my voice down! KEEP MY VOICE DOWN !!! DON'T YOU WANT ALL THESE OTHERS CUSTOMERS TO KNOW HOW YOU HAVE LOST MY MONEY AND DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS?"
About a week later I got a 'phone call saying "we've found your money in Joe Blogg's account and it will be back in yours in about a week".
No scusi, no apology, no we're sorry for the inconvenience. Bugger all in fact!
Years ago I had a fight in my bank about a missing 200 thousand lire. Peanuts to them but loads to me. I could prove I hadn't used it, spent it, direct debited it or anything at all. They were very shruggy shoulders and nonchalant about it all whilst I looked like a rabid dog. They even told me to keep my voice down which just made me raise it even more and turn around to all the others in line saying,
"keep my voice down! KEEP MY VOICE DOWN !!! DON'T YOU WANT ALL THESE OTHERS CUSTOMERS TO KNOW HOW YOU HAVE LOST MY MONEY AND DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS?"
About a week later I got a 'phone call saying "we've found your money in Joe Blogg's account and it will be back in yours in about a week".
No scusi, no apology, no we're sorry for the inconvenience. Bugger all in fact!
May 21st 2010, 7:47 pm
#43
Giorgio Miles
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
Re: Stolen Cheques
They never ever do send out any customer care kind of letters.
Years ago I had a fight in my bank about a missing 200 thousand lire. Peanuts to them but loads to me. I could prove I hadn't used it, spent it, direct debited it or anything at all. They were very shruggy shoulders and nonchalant about it all whilst I looked like a rabid dog. They even told me to keep my voice down which just made me raise it even more and turn around to all the others in line saying,
"keep my voice down! KEEP MY VOICE DOWN !!! DON'T YOU WANT ALL THESE OTHERS CUSTOMERS TO KNOW HOW YOU HAVE LOST MY MONEY AND DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS?"
About a week later I got a 'phone call saying "we've found your money in Joe Blogg's account and it will be back in yours in about a week".
No scusi, no apology, no we're sorry for the inconvenience. Bugger all in fact!
Years ago I had a fight in my bank about a missing 200 thousand lire. Peanuts to them but loads to me. I could prove I hadn't used it, spent it, direct debited it or anything at all. They were very shruggy shoulders and nonchalant about it all whilst I looked like a rabid dog. They even told me to keep my voice down which just made me raise it even more and turn around to all the others in line saying,
"keep my voice down! KEEP MY VOICE DOWN !!! DON'T YOU WANT ALL THESE OTHERS CUSTOMERS TO KNOW HOW YOU HAVE LOST MY MONEY AND DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS?"
About a week later I got a 'phone call saying "we've found your money in Joe Blogg's account and it will be back in yours in about a week".
No scusi, no apology, no we're sorry for the inconvenience. Bugger all in fact!
Jun 5th 2010, 1:23 pm
#44
Giorgio Miles
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
Re: Stolen Cheques
The 30 days I gave them is up and the bank have not even replied.
When I checked with the Ombudsman service they say I have to give them 60 days so I guess another letter giving them the extra days.
I have proof of delivery for the first letter so I can calculate the 60 days from that.
When I checked with the Ombudsman service they say I have to give them 60 days so I guess another letter giving them the extra days.
I have proof of delivery for the first letter so I can calculate the 60 days from that.
Last edited by Lorna at Vicenza; Jun 5th 2010 at 1:39 pm.
Jun 5th 2010, 1:40 pm
#45
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Posts: 19,036
Re: Stolen Cheques
What about sending them a reminder that you have had no reply as yet to your letter dated 0?/0?/2010 and that they have until 0?/0/2010 to reply.