Stolen Cheques
Dec 15th 2009, 6:19 am
#16
MODERATOR
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Province of Vicenza
Posts: 19,036
Re: Stolen Cheques
Any more news on the cheques and your money?
Dec 15th 2009, 7:42 pm
#17
Giorgio Miles
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
Re: Stolen Cheques
Sorry for the delay in getting back with further information. The cheque was dated the 9 February 2009 for 1,730€.
There are some 5 different signatures on the back of the cheque which is not crossed because the book is 3 years old. I have attached a copy of the cheque.
I have been back to the police with a copy of the cheque (as instructed by the bank who said the police had only investigated the larger cheque).
The police had trouble finding any reference to the case but fortunately I had taken copies of the statements with me and we spent an hour going round in circles. They kept saying that in my statement I had given the numbers of the cheques that were stolen but that I should have mentioned specifically the details of the 2 that were presented. I said that I had and that a copy of one of the cheques had been handed over by me at the time and now I was giving then a copy of the other one. I also pointed out tat I had no control over the content of the statement as the officer, both times, typed what they chose to type into the PC then gave me the document to sign.
I have now been told that the case was sent to Brindisi to be investigated and that I have to wait until the case is sent back and I will be contacted and told the result!!
The person who acted as interpreter for me this time had discussed it with his solicitor who told him the bank were right.
any further advice is most welcome. I am living on a pension having retired early on health grounds and this is over a months income for me.
Thanks for the help and support
There are some 5 different signatures on the back of the cheque which is not crossed because the book is 3 years old. I have attached a copy of the cheque.
I have been back to the police with a copy of the cheque (as instructed by the bank who said the police had only investigated the larger cheque).
The police had trouble finding any reference to the case but fortunately I had taken copies of the statements with me and we spent an hour going round in circles. They kept saying that in my statement I had given the numbers of the cheques that were stolen but that I should have mentioned specifically the details of the 2 that were presented. I said that I had and that a copy of one of the cheques had been handed over by me at the time and now I was giving then a copy of the other one. I also pointed out tat I had no control over the content of the statement as the officer, both times, typed what they chose to type into the PC then gave me the document to sign.
I have now been told that the case was sent to Brindisi to be investigated and that I have to wait until the case is sent back and I will be contacted and told the result!!
The person who acted as interpreter for me this time had discussed it with his solicitor who told him the bank were right.
any further advice is most welcome. I am living on a pension having retired early on health grounds and this is over a months income for me.
Thanks for the help and support
Dec 16th 2009, 6:32 am
#18
MODERATOR
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Province of Vicenza
Posts: 19,036
Re: Stolen Cheques
Sorry for the delay in getting back with further information. The cheque was dated the 9 February 2009 for 1,730€.
There are some 5 different signatures on the back of the cheque which is not crossed because the book is 3 years old. I have attached a copy of the cheque.
I have been back to the police with a copy of the cheque (as instructed by the bank who said the police had only investigated the larger cheque).
The police had trouble finding any reference to the case but fortunately I had taken copies of the statements with me and we spent an hour going round in circles. They kept saying that in my statement I had given the numbers of the cheques that were stolen but that I should have mentioned specifically the details of the 2 that were presented. I said that I had and that a copy of one of the cheques had been handed over by me at the time and now I was giving then a copy of the other one. I also pointed out tat I had no control over the content of the statement as the officer, both times, typed what they chose to type into the PC then gave me the document to sign.
I have now been told that the case was sent to Brindisi to be investigated and that I have to wait until the case is sent back and I will be contacted and told the result!!
The person who acted as interpreter for me this time had discussed it with his solicitor who told him the bank were right.
any further advice is most welcome. I am living on a pension having retired early on health grounds and this is over a months income for me.
Thanks for the help and support
There are some 5 different signatures on the back of the cheque which is not crossed because the book is 3 years old. I have attached a copy of the cheque.
I have been back to the police with a copy of the cheque (as instructed by the bank who said the police had only investigated the larger cheque).
The police had trouble finding any reference to the case but fortunately I had taken copies of the statements with me and we spent an hour going round in circles. They kept saying that in my statement I had given the numbers of the cheques that were stolen but that I should have mentioned specifically the details of the 2 that were presented. I said that I had and that a copy of one of the cheques had been handed over by me at the time and now I was giving then a copy of the other one. I also pointed out tat I had no control over the content of the statement as the officer, both times, typed what they chose to type into the PC then gave me the document to sign.
I have now been told that the case was sent to Brindisi to be investigated and that I have to wait until the case is sent back and I will be contacted and told the result!!
The person who acted as interpreter for me this time had discussed it with his solicitor who told him the bank were right.
any further advice is most welcome. I am living on a pension having retired early on health grounds and this is over a months income for me.
Thanks for the help and support
Feb 10th 2010, 12:56 pm
#19
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 182
Re: Stolen Cheques
Any further update on this? I'm very interested now as we got burgled yesterday while asleep and they took a cheque book (as well as money, a laptop and car), and would be interested to know the consequences.
I have to blame myself in some part though, as I just knew this place could be broken into with a feather. Something I wouldn't allow to happen in the UK, but over here it somehow seemed acceptable.
I have to blame myself in some part though, as I just knew this place could be broken into with a feather. Something I wouldn't allow to happen in the UK, but over here it somehow seemed acceptable.
Feb 10th 2010, 1:16 pm
#20
Giorgio Miles
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
Re: Stolen Cheques
Any further update on this? I'm very interested now as we got burgled yesterday while asleep and they took a cheque book (as well as money, a laptop and car), and would be interested to know the consequences.
I have to blame myself in some part though, as I just knew this place could be broken into with a feather. Something I wouldn't allow to happen in the UK, but over here it somehow seemed acceptable.
I have to blame myself in some part though, as I just knew this place could be broken into with a feather. Something I wouldn't allow to happen in the UK, but over here it somehow seemed acceptable.
The situation currently is that the insurance company say that my policy excludes negotiable documents and that includes cheques.
The bank say it is my responsibility and will not accept any responsibility for paying a cheque with a different name as the signature.
The police have had the case open for investigation since last January and say I have to wait for the completed file to be returned here from Brindisi. So basically at the moment I am 1700 Euro out of pocket.
I thiink all I can do now is write to the bank making a formal claim as advised elsewhere here.
I need to get someone to draft the letter as my Italian has a long way to go still.
as long as you have notified the bank of the cheque numbers you should be ok as they can block them.
Hope this helps.
Feb 10th 2010, 1:21 pm
#21
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 182
Re: Stolen Cheques
Thanks for the reply and sorry to hear that you're no nearer resolution.
It was pretty lucky that we noticed the missing cheque book as we don't write them very often, but today my wife had to give one out and noticed that it wasn't there.
That's the worst thing about the burglary, not knowing what was taken. Previously I wanted to get a safe to store things in. My thought was that even if they took the whole safe away at least I'd have a record of exactly what was in it.
It was pretty lucky that we noticed the missing cheque book as we don't write them very often, but today my wife had to give one out and noticed that it wasn't there.
That's the worst thing about the burglary, not knowing what was taken. Previously I wanted to get a safe to store things in. My thought was that even if they took the whole safe away at least I'd have a record of exactly what was in it.
Feb 10th 2010, 1:25 pm
#22
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Verona/ Nr Turin
Posts: 4,671
Re: Stolen Cheques
Any further update on this? I'm very interested now as we got burgled yesterday while asleep and they took a cheque book (as well as money, a laptop and car), and would be interested to know the consequences.
I have to blame myself in some part though, as I just knew this place could be broken into with a feather. Something I wouldn't allow to happen in the UK, but over here it somehow seemed acceptable.
I have to blame myself in some part though, as I just knew this place could be broken into with a feather. Something I wouldn't allow to happen in the UK, but over here it somehow seemed acceptable.
I'll send you some karma.
Feb 10th 2010, 1:43 pm
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: San Maurizio Canavese, Italy
Posts: 3,138
Re: Stolen Cheques
So sorry to read this. I'm so glad we don't have any cheque books here. We were broken into only about 6mths after we moved here and it was horrendous. We weren't even insured as we hadn't even thought about it! Never been burgled in the UK and we had insurance there for all those years. You do live and learn though. We just tried to remember that at least noone got hurt, but it's still pretty horrendous.
Feb 10th 2010, 3:04 pm
#24
MODERATOR
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Province of Vicenza
Posts: 19,036
Re: Stolen Cheques
So sorry to hear about the break.in.
The situation currently is that the insurance company say that my policy excludes negotiable documents and that includes cheques.
The bank say it is my responsibility and will not accept any responsibility for paying a cheque with a different name as the signature.
The police have had the case open for investigation since last January and say I have to wait for the completed file to be returned here from Brindisi. So basically at the moment I am 1700 Euro out of pocket.
I thiink all I can do now is write to the bank making a formal claim as advised elsewhere here.
I need to get someone to draft the letter as my Italian has a long way to go still.
as long as you have notified the bank of the cheque numbers you should be ok as they can block them.
Hope this helps.
The situation currently is that the insurance company say that my policy excludes negotiable documents and that includes cheques.
The bank say it is my responsibility and will not accept any responsibility for paying a cheque with a different name as the signature.
The police have had the case open for investigation since last January and say I have to wait for the completed file to be returned here from Brindisi. So basically at the moment I am 1700 Euro out of pocket.
I thiink all I can do now is write to the bank making a formal claim as advised elsewhere here.
I need to get someone to draft the letter as my Italian has a long way to go still.
as long as you have notified the bank of the cheque numbers you should be ok as they can block them.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the reply and sorry to hear that you're no nearer resolution.
It was pretty lucky that we noticed the missing cheque book as we don't write them very often, but today my wife had to give one out and noticed that it wasn't there.
That's the worst thing about the burglary, not knowing what was taken. Previously I wanted to get a safe to store things in. My thought was that even if they took the whole safe away at least I'd have a record of exactly what was in it.
It was pretty lucky that we noticed the missing cheque book as we don't write them very often, but today my wife had to give one out and noticed that it wasn't there.
That's the worst thing about the burglary, not knowing what was taken. Previously I wanted to get a safe to store things in. My thought was that even if they took the whole safe away at least I'd have a record of exactly what was in it.
Feb 10th 2010, 6:54 pm
#25
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 182
Re: Stolen Cheques
Good news on my side. We found the cheque books. Though if they're as good as unlimited cash even if they're unsigned then I think I might burn them.
Feb 10th 2010, 8:29 pm
#26
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,679
Re: Stolen Cheques
So sorry to hear about the burglaries and missing cheques.
A couple of years back we had 2.000 euros withdrawn from our credit card.
We have 2 cards on one account and I use mine for the daily supermarket/petrol/kids stuff shopping. I do keep track of how much I spend and I was very surprised to have 'autorizazione negata' one day.On checking further, the credit card company told us that 1,700 was spent in Caserta, near Napoli in Carrefour( I have never been there) and the rest in a local restaurant and a sports shop.
The weirdest thing was that my husband's card was new, never used as he only got it a few days before. It makes you think that it was an inside job, ie the card was cloned in the bank?
We did get our money after 2 months.
I am also surprised noone in Carrefour asked for an ID when they bought their plasma tv with our card?
Regards, Lavinia
A couple of years back we had 2.000 euros withdrawn from our credit card.
We have 2 cards on one account and I use mine for the daily supermarket/petrol/kids stuff shopping. I do keep track of how much I spend and I was very surprised to have 'autorizazione negata' one day.On checking further, the credit card company told us that 1,700 was spent in Caserta, near Napoli in Carrefour( I have never been there) and the rest in a local restaurant and a sports shop.
The weirdest thing was that my husband's card was new, never used as he only got it a few days before. It makes you think that it was an inside job, ie the card was cloned in the bank?
We did get our money after 2 months.
I am also surprised noone in Carrefour asked for an ID when they bought their plasma tv with our card?
Regards, Lavinia
Feb 10th 2010, 8:44 pm
#27
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Verona/ Nr Turin
Posts: 4,671
Re: Stolen Cheques
Mine new card was cloned to about 5yrs ago, when it hadn't even arrived. Definitely suspicious and it was the credit card co., who informed me.
Then the silly buggers sent me a new one with the same numbers.
Then the silly buggers sent me a new one with the same numbers.
Feb 10th 2010, 9:10 pm
#28
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Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Near Turin
Posts: 2,188
Re: Stolen Cheques
Sorry to hear about the burglary and the cheques - hope it all gets sorted soon though. We dont use cheques over here and I'm even wary of using my bank card sometimes. My friend used hers in Upim and then had problems cos after the store had closed, someone had hidden in the shop and then gone to the till and cloned all the cards used that day 
She knew nothing until the bank told her a large sum of money had been withdrawn from her account! When using a hole in the wall I always cover up with my purse or a magazine as they sometimes have a camera hidden which takes your details.
She knew nothing until the bank told her a large sum of money had been withdrawn from her account! When using a hole in the wall I always cover up with my purse or a magazine as they sometimes have a camera hidden which takes your details.
Feb 10th 2010, 9:39 pm
#29
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Pisa
Posts: 63
Re: Stolen Cheques
firstly, Sorry to hear about all these burglaries. Our house here is like Fort knox...my Sicilian father in law is a bit paranoid about burglars, so we have gates on all doors and windows, shutters, high security locks and a mega thick front door but they'd still get if they wanted to. We found footprints on the wall where thieves had climbed up the drain pipe and tried to get in the terrace. Now I know why my wife felt insecure in my flat in the UK...almost zero security compared to here.
Don't burn your cheques, even if you don't want them. If you ever want to close a bank account, you'll have to give them all the unused ones and account for them all, they have to annul them, if you can't produce all of the numbered cheques that they've issued to you (except the ones you've spent obviously), you have to give them a denuncia from the Carabinieri to say that you've lost them....
To me this sounds like the bank's fault, they should have checked the signature.
Matt
Don't burn your cheques, even if you don't want them. If you ever want to close a bank account, you'll have to give them all the unused ones and account for them all, they have to annul them, if you can't produce all of the numbered cheques that they've issued to you (except the ones you've spent obviously), you have to give them a denuncia from the Carabinieri to say that you've lost them....
To me this sounds like the bank's fault, they should have checked the signature.
Matt
Apr 16th 2010, 1:15 pm
#30
Giorgio Miles
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Ceglie Messapica, Italia
Posts: 64
Re: Stolen Cheques
Sorry to hear of the burglary happened to us, very upsetting.
Asked hubby on this one. He said that the bank is how shall I say, modifying the truth to their convenience. Under €3,000 the banks compensate between themselves. It's nothing to do with customer accounts just makes life easier for the banks. All cheques are 'non-trasferibile' since 2007. Was it an older cheque book? You have the copy of the cheque. Could you p.m. it to me. (you need 3 posts before you can do that.) It's almost unheard of for a bank to pay cash unless they know you very well. You need a document to get the money. So they must know what happened the money. If there wasn't enough money in the account they shouldn't have paid out. They can't 'protest' your cheque because it's too late (there's 8 days for that) but they can put you in their 'little black book' and make life difficult. The best thing to do if the bank won't budged is to get a lawyer to get the account blocked. I've condensed this, but I think I'm clear. If not ask. Don't be intimidated by the bank. It's all part of the excellent customer care Italy is sooo famous for.
Things take longer here and just because the police haven't got back to you doesn't mean they aren't investigating, but neither does it mean they are.
P.S. No, you can't stop or block a cheque. The best you can expect is the bank to hold on to it for a few days if they know you very well.
Asked hubby on this one. He said that the bank is how shall I say, modifying the truth to their convenience. Under €3,000 the banks compensate between themselves. It's nothing to do with customer accounts just makes life easier for the banks. All cheques are 'non-trasferibile' since 2007. Was it an older cheque book? You have the copy of the cheque. Could you p.m. it to me. (you need 3 posts before you can do that.) It's almost unheard of for a bank to pay cash unless they know you very well. You need a document to get the money. So they must know what happened the money. If there wasn't enough money in the account they shouldn't have paid out. They can't 'protest' your cheque because it's too late (there's 8 days for that) but they can put you in their 'little black book' and make life difficult. The best thing to do if the bank won't budged is to get a lawyer to get the account blocked. I've condensed this, but I think I'm clear. If not ask. Don't be intimidated by the bank. It's all part of the excellent customer care Italy is sooo famous for.
Things take longer here and just because the police haven't got back to you doesn't mean they aren't investigating, but neither does it mean they are.
P.S. No, you can't stop or block a cheque. The best you can expect is the bank to hold on to it for a few days if they know you very well.
Sorry to get back to you after so long but still nothing from the police or the bank.
Not sure if you saw my earlier post but the cheque was dated the 9 February 2009 for 1,730€. Is that important.?
Because I have changed my name by deed poll the bank saw I have to close the account and open a new one. I am concerned that by doing that I will have relieved them of any liability for the stolen cheque that they paid.
I am going to put a letter together and send it to the director of the branch. He has been extremely unhelpful, even stopping other staff from making suggestions to me.