morpeth

I have lived in Italy and visited many times. There are many wonderful things about Italy, and many annoying frustrations, If you like the lifestyle of Italy I think the most important thing is your own level of patience- I just accept the way things are in Italy, and arrived at the point I actually find the frustrations amusing, and as such easier to put up with. If you let the things bother you maybe not the place.

Conor_0

I agree with Morpeth. Italians are warm friendly people (also good looking and blessed with a great climate), who do some things wonderfully, like food, life style, high performance cars, design, football etc. but they are very bad at efficient bureaucracy, sensible laws and deciding anything in large groups. If you let yourself get irritated by bad governing at local and national levels, and customer services which are awful, you will be driven mad in Italy, and should live in Germany. You need to enjoy the many good things of Italian Life, and see the ridiculous and humorous side of the bad things.

I remember when my Dutch friend came to visit me in Italy, I explained to him that we must do things in Italy the Italian way – which was to make and agree a plan and then as we start to execute the plan we change it. We spent the whole duration of his stay making plans and changing them and laughing at the idea.

Jake.White

Yep, agreed. I spend as much time as I can there and most of the time I enjoy it immensely, but you have to point these stumbling blocks out to dispel the often fantasy viewpoint many people have about how it would really be like to live there, and to gain a realistic perspective of how things actually are : that endless queue at the post office and the bank, the dreadful maze of bureaucracy which seems to infest all things, or the inferior DIY materials which either don't work or don't fit, or the tools you buy in places like Leroy Merlin which have a tendency to fall apart the first time you use them - it's all just a part of Italy and it's myriad cartoon style idiosyncrasies.

It might also be worth mentioning the actual cost of living in Italy which I find to be on a par and very often even more expensive than in England.. Although London is probably an exception to that rule..

Personally I love my time in Italy and live for the twice yearly trips I get to make. I'm going for 6 weeks again in the autumn but having lived through one full winter there I don't think I could ever go on a permanent or full time basis - just too hard for me in the house I have there. Maybe in a nice fancy house with all mod cons it would be easier but my place is rustic in the extreme and gets to feel like camping after a while.

As mentioned above, without any Italian language, the real chances of getting any kind of meaningful or decently paid employment are almost nil which is - in my opinion at least - perhaps the biggest factor in making a decision to move there...

morpeth

Yes many people have a fantasy viewpoint of a place, often based on brief holidays. And yes many things need to be pointed out. But ultimately I do believe patience and looking at the humorous side of things can make almost any location bearable.

Funny I get more annoyed in UK or America, where I expect things to be efficient. Outside of North America or Northern Europe I don't expect efficiency, so doesn't bother me.

carcajou

I am a similar age to you, also with an Italian wife from the North.

Think very carefully about this - as Geoff52 said, the key is long-term financial prospects.

If you think saving up to buy a property in the UK is hard, wait until you get a load of Italy. I could not believe the types of places my wife's cousins (our age) had to live in despite being married and both of them having well-paid professional jobs, and that was in regional towns, not the centre of Rome or Milan (multiple sets of cousins). One even left for the UK partly because of that!

If you already have a place in Northern Italy that is a long-term solution, great. Italians also have different concepts of children "living at home" so if the property is actually a parental one you are going to stay in for a while, you won't have the social stigma from it that you might have in the UK. If it's just your own place that's empty, great.

Salaries are typically considerably lower than in the UK, and jobs scarce. There was a news story this morning about how a set of openings in my wife's field attracted 12,000 applicants!

As for traffic and expensive train fares, as you know, you will find that in Italy as well. You didn't specify if your property was in a town or the countryside.

But I'm sure your wife has already filled you in on all of that.

I do hope to move there some day, my wife not so much, but we are both in agreement that it can't happen until we are in a position where we would not be dependent on Italian-generated income for it to happen.

It sounds like you need a break - I concur with the other poster who suggested a six-month of year-long sabbatical. Failing that, I would consider all options, including Ireland and regional UK, and perhaps farther afield like Australia or Canada (you didn't mention your field) in addition to Italy, and make a decision with long-term finance as a key component/driver in the calculation rather than just getting away from London as fast as possible.

Life is tough in Italy right now, and change is coming, because it has to. The question is whether change comes in an orderly fashion, or whether Merkel, Macron and Renzi (if he gets back in) lose their ability to control events and change happens that way. EU and national leaders have proven so disconnected from society that I am very pessimistic that whatever is coming, governments will both see coming and be able to control it. I don't know how that will affect Italy; anyone who says they do, is lying or stupid.

modicasa

or the tools you buy in places like Leroy Merlin which have a tendency to fall apart the first time you use them

I think you answered your own point in that sentence. Go to a decent ferramenta and things improve!

Geordieborn

I have to admit when I first saw that quote I had to laugh. When we first arrived I bought a folding tool bench at Leroy, very light and very cheap! Yes, of course the handles to tighten up the vice part snapped off first use, but the big surprise for me was looking a bit closer at the make. Straight away I'm thinking China, no Durham England! But the real point is my early learning coming here, you very much only get what you pay for. I would use the ferramenta most times, but you can get just as good and possibly cheaper at the like of Leroy, you just need to buy the best you can afford.

criodain

I often get the impression reading some of these forums, that life in in Italy and Spain is an absolute horror show and disaster and an eternal struggle. Is it *really* that bad?

I know someone in Dublin, from the south of Spain, who after a year or so, can't stand the lifestyle in Ireland amongst other things, and knows that the med life is for them, even with its negative traits. Each to their own I guess.

By the way, @Jake.White and @adamm82. This thread needs links to your music \m/

Pica

No! Italy for sure is fantastic-mostly

philat98

Have all your problems with the earthquakes and heavy snow in the Abruzzo been sorted out Pica?
I had a few days in the Marche at the end of May and I was surprised how many buildings were closed as a result of the earthquakes and lots of trees broken from heavy snowfall. The damage in the Marche doesn't get much mention in the Italian news.

ononno

It does when they spend earthquake funding on cycle pistes

Pica

Ciao philat98
There are issues that have come to light after the snow & quakes such as unsafe school buildings & other structures. The roads are slowly getting fixed; not back to how they were of course because certainly in our area (near Castiglione Messer Raimondo) it's just not possible as parts of the road surface and sub structure has totally disappeared down the hillsides so we're left with a road that in sections is now single track. Tree damage, collapsed barns, dead animals and landslips have been astonishing.
The route we normally used to get to Campo Imperatore goes past the Rigopiano hotel that was crushed by the avalanche following the January 19th quake. That part of the road is still closed off - pending investigations!
Now of course the intense heat and lack of rain is affecting the fruit trees and most likely it'll be another poor year for olives.

carcajou

If you are a British tourist, or have a ton of money - it's great.

We go back every year, and every year, the layer of people who ask me about migrating out seems to go deeper and deeper (if that makes sense) - people who you would think, these people have homes, jobs and family ties, and would never want to live anywhere else. Then the next year, a person who you thought would really REALLY never want to leave, asks you about how to get to Dubai or Australia.

But those are all Italians (but, comparatively well-off Italians in a wealthy part of the country). I don't talk to other expats there.

The other country you mentioned, I know nothing about Spain.

I did say in my earlier post I would be happy to explore the idea of moving there later on, once we could say for sure that we wouldn't be limited to Italian-generated income. We did at one point consider moving to Lugano, but just kind of gradually lost interest in moving there.

I don't think Italians would consider leaving the European Union right now, but the idea is gaining traction, and if things don't start to get better soon - they will.

Geordieborn

Pica, looks like you might get a few spots of rain in a couple of minutes...

Geordieborn

... oh dear I do hope you got as much as we did! House temperature went from 28c+ down to 23c - lovely, but doubt it will last long.