Patty

Oh Indie - thats just really awful - I feel really sad and angry at the same time. Your poor son - what a rotten bloody thing to overhear. You are right though - shouting at this stupid woman wont do any good so just ignore them. I dont know what else to say - I'm still in shock at your post ! Their whole attitude (the teachers/parents/school) is just so awful.
Maybe as you say - next time just go to the top and have it out with the preside.
Have to say though - I dont know how you keep your cool

indiebird

Hmmmm not sure I know how I keep my cool either. Probably because I internalise it and make myself a nervous wreck instead. I couldn't help but write 'ma non mi piace telefonare' in my sons diary and guess what?? There is a note from the teachers saying 'Harrison continues to work badly and laugh and disturb others and he is never prepared properly.' and apparently when one teacher read what I wrote she just laughed and said 'if we hear that your mother is going to La Presida then we are going first and telling her how naughty you are for us. You're not perfect you know.' Hmmmmm......

Lorna at Vicenza

well first of all - compliments for that perfectly written Italian sentence - but - unfortunately using the first person put you under the microscope again.

I would not have said "I don't like telephoning people." I would have said "I would telephone for help but none of the other mothers have given or offered me their numbers, now what do I do?" and I would have thrown the ball back into their court.


As for the preside thing - sounds a bit like they might be calling your bluff. Not sure on this one but it does sound a bit like they are sure that you wouldn't ever go there - 1) because they think your Italian is not good enough to explain yourself and complain or 2) because your son really is naughty and they think they have the upper hand.

indiebird

The last time I had to telephone someone I didn't get all the homework written down properly and it took about 6 weeks of being back at school and the teacher giving my son hell before i managed to get through to her the fault was probably mine and not his.... but again I was still wrong because of course if he had written it down in the first place I wouldn't have needed to phone anyone..... It's just a lose-lose isn't it...?? At the end of the day he goes in every day, he probably is a bit aggravating and whatever I do ain't gonna make much difference is it? Probably annoys them more that I send him and there ain't much they can do about it!!

37100

Oh Indiebird. She needs a slap. Think even I would take myself off to the preside. Don't know, but I bet the next move is to suggest your son needs the psychologist.

Patty

Hmmmm - think I know who I'd suggest sees the ruddy phsycologist What a smug lot of bitches they sound - honestly Indie the more I read the more I want to get all us lot together and go and give them what for ! They sound really unprofessional and unsympathetic. I hope that the saying 'What goes around comes around' is true and that one day (maybe not now) they are offered a transfer or their hubby gets an offer abroad .....then off they go and have a taste of what they've put you through. (preferably OUter Mongolia) I know we shouldnt wish bad on others - but just this once it would feel .....well, right

indiebird

Ahhh thanks for your support girls. Lorna thinks ....I should write a letter to La Presida.... It has already been suggested the psychologist as well as my friend being questioned once about about whether she thought there was anything 'bad' about our family like some kind of abuse going on!! We decided that he didn't need a psychiatrist, he just needed time but I am wondering about that letter to La Presida now.....

indiebird

Allora, 'hyperthetically' can a teacher lay hands on a child here. i.e grab their ear and lift them up by it?

Secondly, how do you go about sorting the truth from the fiction when it comes to kids in school??

Patty

blimey I dont know about that Indie - I'll try and find out if you like ??
The thing is that italy is so different in so many ways that it wouldnt surprise me if they did allow this. I know my son (the older one) has told me a few stories that horrified me. Whether its legal or not .....???


As for sorting out fact from fiction - thats really hard. Kids might tell different stories depending on how they 'saw' the situation - or maybe change the story after talking to mummy and she 'helps' them to remodel the story. If its a teacher then its their word against a childs and we all know who they believe over here

Patty

then again having said that ........if you're sure about the facts and believe them then you could be the first parent to take this to the courts

I mean - the person who recently took the italian government on and requested that crosses be removed from all schools was a 'finnish' born italian citizen It went to the EU and they decided to award her the case.

indiebird

yeah I know what you mean Patty. This came from another boy today and then ds told me the whole lot. He didn't want to tell me sooner (two weeks ago) as he thinks there is no hope. The trouble is the other boy is very overly dramatic and I wonder if he kinda 'remodelled' things for me son. If it's true though it horrifies me. No wonder the poor little sod is depressed. Just don't know what to do for the best. He has begged me not to go to the Presida as he says that the teacher has told him she will make his life a misery and she will follow him to Scuola Media and make his life hell there too.... or did she?? I've got no way of knowing for sure have I??!!

Patty

I'm horrified at this Indie - you cannot let this go - your poor poor boy. How much more shit has he got to put up with because of a nasty vindinctive woman. There must be something you can do - can you move him to another school -the next village maybe ??? I would move heaven and earth to protect my children and I just dont think (if I were in your shoes) that I could take another day of this madness.
I am sitting here just gobsmacked that a fully grown woman can threaten a little boy (cos lets face it - he is still a little boy) with such a nasty and heavy threat. What a complete and utter cow. Sorry Indie - I know this isnt helping you but I feel so angry for you and your son. This may even have long term effects on your boy - he must be so sad.
I'm off to bed now but will come back tomorrow for an update ok ? Chin up.
nighty

indiebird

Hmmmm but what to do Patty?? I have told him that if this happens again he should make a real fuss and get very upset (but not violent just cry ) and excuse himself, go to the Biddelli, tell them and get them to phone us so we can go to the school to sort it out there and then and then we can go straight to the Presida or the school can get her in. I'm just hesitant as I'm not 100% sure and he is seriously no angel and I'm cautious of going in all guns ablazing to find out that I've blacklisted all of us in the whole area and he did something much, much worse that they have tried to deal with. Also they are not going to put their hands up and confess to this either are they??!!

Patty

Ok (and I really am off to bed now ) But just wanted to say that he may be no angel but he is still a little boy in the care of an adult teacher who should be able to deal with any situation without using physical abuse.

The other thing, which I'm sure you already know - is that the preside is also the head of probably another 3/4/5 schools ?? They dont really have daily contact with their schools and so I wouldnt put too much faith in her/him.
Anyway - sleep on it and see what tomorrow brings - maybe some of the others here can advise what they think ?

Lorna at Vicenza

Indie, whether whatever you have heard or been told by your son is true or not or exaggerated or not .... laying a finger on a child at school in any kind of threatening manner or for punishment is illegal. Since 1996.

I'm pretty sure that years ago, most if not all of the teachers used to pull kids' ears because the saying still exists and is widely heard today by teachers, parents, grandparents alike. Sometimes in a jokey way and sometimes not but I've heard the expression "ti tiro le orecchie" a hundred times.

Corporal and physcial punishment on kids of any kind is not allowed in schools or any other kind of institution. It is not illegal in Italy to give your kids a smack (within reason) at home but the United Nations and Unicef etc are working on the European member states (and the American ones where a wooden paddle is still allowed) that haven't already banned it within familes to do so.