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Old Feb 13th 2016, 3:28 pm   #2566
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorna at Vicenza View Post
Lol. I daren't even try the maths one. I just can't understand the way my kids have been taught how to work out sums here.
LOL, I had the same problem here in France. I just couldn't get my head around the method. Knitting patterns and piano playing as well!!
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Old Dec 19th 2016, 7:52 am   #2567
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Morning friends.

Do any of you have any opinions one way or another on the secondary schools called CFP - Centro Formazione Professionale?

This weekend it was Open Day here for most of the schools as the 3rd year middle school students will be forced to choose their future school soon. I took Alex and a mate of his to visit a CFP.
I already knew that the courses are only 3 years and that you don't leave these kind of schools with the title of a "diploma". There was a small presentation where the school sold itself well, especially to kids like Alex that work well manually but less so when it comes to hard learning from textbooks. Less Italian literature and much more lab work for example.

What I didn't know and what was never mentioned in the presentation is that when you leave school and you're an "Operatore Elettrico", it doesn't really mean much at all. Whilst the boys were being shown around the lab by actual students, I chatted to the prof and asked him exactly what Operatore means and what can you do afterwards. It came out that whatever it seems you will do on leaving school, you have to work as an apprentice for three years because you're not qualified to do anything on your own.

Chloe keeps telling me that it's worthless as even a caretaker job these days requires a state diploma.
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Old Dec 19th 2016, 8:21 am   #2568
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Just ask the new Minister for Educay-shun !!

Joking apart Lorna, I think that's probably right. There's an obsession with qualifications these days, even though people don't even know what they mean or what they entail half the time. But still I think you'd be better off getting him through a five-year course even if that does mean studying, for example, Italian literature .. A friend of mine is actually an Italian teacher an an 'ITIS' or 'ITIP' or whatever they call them (Istituto tecnico...) and she says the kids aren't interested half the time in Dante and I promessi sposi and all that but she just gets them through with a minimum of knowledge.

How was that place for foreign languages? Was there an English course? At least a five year school will make him do a "foreign" language ..
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Old Dec 19th 2016, 1:12 pm   #2569
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Yes it had English. No other languages. 2 hours a week for Italian, English and maths, but 3 hours of Electronics Lab and 6 hours of laboratorio sistemi elettrici. Not sure how that differs from the 3 hours of laboratorio elettrotecnica. They had some history, science, computers and diritto ed economia as well and technology. PE and religion.
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Old Dec 20th 2016, 8:31 am   #2570
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Hello Lorna, advice from a grandad for what it's worth. If the lad is not academically inclined, you will only end up with a disgruntled and rebellious teenager if you put him in a 5 year scuola superiore. He will do much better on a 3 year technical course, followed by appenticeship and work experience. He will in the end also find that there is a tremendous shortage of qualified technical workers; and will easily walk into well paid jobs instead of ending up in call centres or door to door leaflet distribution.
Merry Christmas to all our readers.
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Old Dec 20th 2016, 9:06 am   #2571
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Thanks ononno.
He's a bright kid, but he's been told too often that he's stupid in Italian and Maths.
He seems more interested in the 3 years just because it's 3 years rather than actually liking electrics.
He likes metal mechanics, but the meccanictrono or whatever course it's called is a five year one at the IPSIA.
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Old Oct 12th 2017, 9:45 am   #2572
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

So ..... Alex finally left middle school where he was constantly bullied and where it was constantly ignored and now he's at high school.

31 boys in a single classroom aged between 14 and 17 and there are problems already so the teachers called a meeting to which all parents and their children were ‘invited’ to attend from 6.30pm to 8pm. Six teachers all in a row at the front of the classroom, the parents sitting at the desks and the boys in a row at the back. One teacher started pointing at parents she obviously doesn’t already know, asking them whose parent they were. When I gave Alex’s name she said, “ah si. Lei è la mamma Inglese vero?”

And then the mudslinging started. Four teachers took their turns to bang on and on about how bad the class is and they heaped shite upon shite on all of the kids as a group. The parents were the usual crowd. One father said that his son is a good boy at home. One limp-looking mother said she was so upset to hear that the ‘bambini’ swear at school and use bad language with each other even if they are joking. Another couple of parents were the typical boot-lickers telling the teachers how very good they are and how they understand that their job must be so difficult.

Just as I was thoroughly sick of the ton of shite being thrown at the kids and I was about to stand up and say something like, “you’ve put 31 young, teenage boys into a single class and we’ve heard all the complaints, but no suggestions or proposals as to how you plan to move forwards”, a furious Italian mamma stood up and let them have it.

“Complaints. Complaints. Complaints. The boys aren’t perfect. The boys are all bad. The boys have turned into a pack of wolves. The boys don’t listen or work. The boys, the boys, the boys. Of course they are not perfect. They still have to grow up and mature but what excuse do some of you teachers have? Where’s that Prof Boldroni? Where is he? How are the boys supposed to respect and work with a teacher that is rude and ignorant? You’re all here now to tell all of us parents exactly how the boys behave in class but I bet they don’t all know what that Boldroni did do they? Do you know parents that my son has a stutter? It’s quite severe. He has speech therapy and really struggles with oral tests but he tries to do the ‘interrogazioni’ anyway until that ignorant Boldroni impatiently waved him back to his seat saying that he just won’t work with Davide anymore because he’s useless and he can’t understand what he says so why waste his time? Did any of you know that? Is this the kind of teacher you want in the classroom? Where is he? Where is he? I can’t see him here and I’ve got a lot more to say to him.” The teachers of course said that this wasn’t true but all of the boys confirmed that it was. Furious Italian Mamma didn’t calm down until the teachers admitted that Prof Boldroni asked for and was granted a transfer because he’s never had to work with such a pack of animals (so still blaming the kids) and he won’t be back in that classroom.

The mudslinging continued apart from one male teacher who said that he doesn’t have such a problem with the boys. Yes, they need calling to attention sometimes, yes they get stupid in class sometimes, but he understands the age, class dynamics, lots of boys all together, hormones etc and he’s never had to deal with some of the extreme behaviour his colleagues have mentioned.

Some of the boys bravely spoke up about things they feel are unjust, one example was lots of them being locked out of first class that morning and getting a ‘nota’ for being five minutes late after the bell. “Late is late” shouted one teacher at the boys. “You know the rules and you know you had a test this morning.” I did speak up then. “You don’t think that those boys plotted to be late to miss a test do you? When 12 and more boys just from this class all turn up late and they are all coming from the same direction on the same bus, it’s quite obviously the fault of public transport. My daughter gets the same bus and she was late to class this morning too but her school recognises the difference between a single student being very late that needs a parent’s ‘giustificazione’ and when lots of students are ‘ritardo breve’ due to the bus service.“

More mudslinging from another teacher and when it was getting close to 8pm one father stood up to give a nice little speech but made a big mistake. “Look” he said, “I know what the problems are as a group and we can all go home and talk to our boys, but this group tonight isn’t whole is it? It must be very difficult for you teachers to get the message across to a group if all of the group isn’t here – both parents and students. Where are the others? It’s obvious that it’s the foreign parents that don’t care about their children like us Italians do ( è ovvio che sono gli stranieri che non badano ai propri figli come noi italiani).”
**** me! I couldn’t believe what track he was about to go down and loudly blurted out, “EXCUSE ME! STA DICENDO CHE IO NON BADO A MIO FIGLIO?” I heard every neck in the room crack as everyone suddenly looked up
- No no no, he said. That’s not what I meant at all.
“Oh sorry.” I replied, “but that’s definitely what I heard.” “So did I” said another mother. “Io sono straniero” said somebody else. I looked over at the lady wearing a hijab wondering if this idiot had completely missed the fact that not everyone in that room was Italian before he used the word ‘stranieri’.
He tried to backtrack by saying that he just meant that a message for a group is difficult if the all of the group doesn’t turn up for meetings, but it was pretty obvious that the weasely, little ****wit meant the Indians, Asians, Moroccans etc.

One of the teachers rapidly changed the subject saying that the parents will be given passwords for the electronic website register on the 21st of October (what the **** is taking so long is beyond me), but by now I’d had enough of this farce and I had to be somewhere else at 8pm so I stood up and said, “Apologies. I really don’t want to be rude, but I have to leave now as I have to be somewhere else at 8pm and believe me, it’s not a nice dinner or a social event. I wish it was. My apologies again. Thank you and goodnight to you all.” As I left the room with Alex I could hear other parents saying they had to leave too so I presume that that was the end of that meeting.

I'm so tired of teachers that just bitch and bitch about kids but never come up with any solutions except calling the parents in the hope that we'll thrash our kids at home. I did mention last night that we can all talk to our kids and ground them and take away privileges etc. but that is just us with a single child and we don't have the whole group in front of us for 6 hours a day like they do so how do they propose to "dissolve or divide" the pack and move forwards? They don't seem to get it at all.

I also know that experienced teachers can rapidly work out which kid is which type, but I was doing that last night with the teachers too. The English teacher is a limp-wristed ninny who said that it took her three hours to get over her first lesson with these kids and she'd rather work in a zoo. The Italian teacher seemed to understand the kids but she expects a heck of a lot from them. The chemistry teacher stood up throughout the whole meeting with his hands jammed into his jeans pockets, a big, butch man who looked very menacing and threatened the kids and parents that as an "ufficiale publico" he has no qualms in going to the police to bring charges against any of us for anything that he deems fit. He was scary.
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Old Oct 12th 2017, 8:07 pm   #2573
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Oh Lorna - you have my utmost sympathy. I am SO glad that I don't have to have anything more to do with the Italian school system. It utterly frustrated me and left me just totally disillusioned. Youngest has just got his diploma and is now looking for work. But my experience with his high school was similar. Teachers accusing the class of being unmanageable, unfair methods (one awful male teacher using a megaphone to shout down students and if they dared ask to go to the toilet he would give them a nota!!). The battles went on and on. (this was an inner city school in Turin). Some (but few) of the teachers were good and fair and tried to motivate the kids but a lot of them were just awful. My son was a 'peer educator against bullying' and his maths teacher used to smirk when they asked for permission to go to the meetings. He said it was a waste of good time and that these projects were just a joke. How can you argue with such ignorance.
I asked my son if he wanted to change school, but he said he had good friends and just wanted to finish. I feel sad that his school years weren't the best years of his life.
My only advice Lorna would be that at the first sign of real trouble , think about another school with smaller classes. But if Alex can get through the first year then he'll more than likely be absolutely fine.
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Old Oct 13th 2017, 6:53 am   #2574
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Wow Patty. Your son has already left school. I remember when he was just starting. I can't believe that was five years ago. Good luck to him in his job hunting.

Imagine using a megaphone to shout at students. What a prick of a teacher.
If Italian schools had anything like Ofsted there'd be a lot of teachers out of work here. A standard teachers' phrase that I've heard a lot here over the years is: I've been teaching for 20/25/30 years. So what? That doesn't mean that you've been a good teacher for 30 years. Fingers crossed that things change and settle down in Alex's school. We'll see.
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Old Oct 14th 2017, 8:29 am   #2575
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Isn't it all a frigging mess. I have a grandson in Liceo Scientifico. Wednesdays no classes because not enough teachers. Chemistry lab no equipment, so in 2 years he has only actually ever had 2 lessons in the lab. Half the week classes in one building, the other half another building half a mile away. Constant battle with English teacher over the usual wrong vowel pronunciation (by the teac her) Poor kids, what chance do they have for the future. His sister went off to London as soon as she got her linguistico diploma at 19, and is doing brilliantly as a fashion designer in Selfridges. good on her.
I'm sure yours will do fine Lorna, with your indomitable support.
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Old Oct 20th 2017, 6:07 am   #2576
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Default Re: Schools, teachers, kids and parents. Education in general.

Lorna, your recent post sounds heartbreaking, and I offer sincere sympathy with hope (and fingers crossed) that the situation improves with time. Rest assured, yourself & Alex will look back in a few years time and put all this down to one of life's more unfortunate periods, with far more happier times ahead. At least it sounds as if your son has one current and future major asset - parents who really care.
All our son's schooling in France was certainly not without it's problems, but his nutty character (like his dad's) tended to turn most problems into humour which was a redeeming factor and saved the day on more than one occasion. I could write volumes on his school experiences, although this isn't the time or the place. Suffice to say in spite of his tedious reports of "can do better" he has suceeded in life - unlike his dad.
Now where did I leave that bottle of methylated spirits......
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