Kevin_P

We bought our house in January this year as a second home so paid a higher tax rate. Our plan is to retire in 2 years, that's why I was thinking about starting the process for applying for residency after 5 years. Pending of course the reciprocal arrangements - so placing ourselves within a process being referred to as a 'period of grace'. However, even if we're treated as non-EU persons after February 2019 it's not a problem - as you say, there are plenty of non-EU people living in Italy. The main difference would be the need to have private healthcare prior to being granted permanent residency. I'm still a bit confused about such a status. My understanding was that it could only be applied for after 5 years' residency for EU persons and 10 years' for non EU?

37100

Hmm....I think that you might be a little confused. Under today's rules, if you intend to live here when you retire then then is when you apply for residency. After 5 yrs of residency, an EU is considered to be permanently settled here even though your residency is considered permanent from day one because temporary residence does not exist -you are either resident or not. The only difference is that you no longer need to provide proof of healthcare after 5 yrs.

The big initial difference between EU's and non EU's is that the later must apply for a visa before moving which can or can't be granted depending on the whim of their local consulate. Only with a visa can the apply for residency.

What will happen in the near future is, at this point in time, anyone's guess.

Kevin_P

Ah - I think I get it! So basically the process starts with the Comune? During the 5 years, do you still need to take out private health insurance?

Geordieborn

Yes, you apply to your comune for residence and you should need health cover if you are not in receipt of a State pension. I say should because some comune never ask for it. If you spend more than 3 months unbroken in Italy you are supposed to apply for residency. Spend more than 182 days in a year, then you are liable for tax here.

Kevin_P

That's really helpful and thank you. Re the tax arrangements. If I'm under 65 and in receipt of a private pension do I need to complete a tax return in Italy? thanks for any advice, Kevin

modicasa

If you're resident in Italy - ie you live here for more thn 183 days a year - then you fall under the Italian tax system for your worldwide income and patrimony - so yes you must fill in a tax return.

Kevin_P

Thank you. A few questions: Is this an annual return? Would I be taxed on my pension (ie already taxed in the UK before I receive it)? Does anyone have any contacts in Italy that could help me file a return? I've got a feeling that the problems I've had just setting up my contract for water may be a walk in the park compared to a tax return!

modicasa

At the moment, you wouldnt have to pay tax on a pension that has been pretaxed. You use a commercialista for your tax returns, or you can go to the CAF who will help you. Its an annual return by early June. the financial year runs Jan to Dec.

Kevin_P

Fantastic and thanks for your help.

Ruby2

Sorry, modicasa, I don't think that's correct. You would still have to complete a Italian tax return and you would be liable for Italian tax on worldwide income and assets, including UK pension. There is a credit for UK tax already deducted but Italian progressive taxes are higher than the UK's and allowances are less generous. And I'm not sure that CAF have expertise in dealing with tax returns for people with foreign sourced income. We use a commercialista who specialises in Italian tax returns for UK citizens.

Kevin_P

Hi Ruby2, thank you for this. Do you have any contact details for a commercialista?

Ruby2

Here you are:

http://studiodelgaizopicchioni.it

Kevin_P

Really helpful Ruby2 and thank you again.

arjacey

By way of an update, the visit to sort out health cover was straightforward. I am not sure where we went other than it was close to the hospital and the documents we now have are headed ASUR (Azienda Sanitaria Unica Regionale) so I assume it was their local offices. The S1 cover was dealt with first without issues. For my part, a payment document was issued for €387.34. This was taken to a bank, paid, document stamped, returned to the ASUR offices where the process was complete. Paper documents were issued confirming our cover, the permament Tessera Sanitaria to arrive sometime later by post.

We needed CF, passports and the original and translated S1 where applicable. We were fully loaded with all our documents just in case!

A couple of points to note. We were allocated a doctor by ASUR so it might be worth doing a bit of research to find a good and conveniently located doctor before going to ASUR. Not all doctors may have availability so it would be worth having one or two options. We had the recommendation of our translator and some ex-pay neighbours.

Secondly, the payment is non pro-rated for a calendar year. So, the payment is the same whenever in the year you start it (even December 30, presumably) and needs to be renewed on January 1 each year. My understanding is that this is done for 5 years and then you would be included in the health system without further payments. As I will be on State Pension next year for January 2019 it should apply to me (Brexit not withstanding). From 2020, who knows how it will work, this will depend on the Brexit terms, I guess.

As I've said before, these are just my experiences where we live. From this forum it is evident that things may be different in other areas. We have heard for someone living 20km away that they found the residency experience was a nightmare made difficult by an unhelpful person in the comune.

Having a translator is money well-spent. Although this visit went smoothly, there were some questions asked and answered, a little prompting required to explain what the S1 was, questions about the doctor to be allocated and some general chit-chat which we may have had difficulties with.

In all, everything done in a morning.

We now have to return to the comune with our paper documents to complete (we think) the residency application. We are waiting to hear that are previous owners 'deregistration' has been accepted before we do that.

On another point sometimes raised in the forum, my understanding is there is a difference between private health cover and what we have done, which is 'buy-in' to the Italian State Health Service and have the same treatment and costs as an Italian. We are only able to do this as EU citizens. If we want private health cover (we don't), we would need to get additional insurance, I guess.

If you are from outside the EU, I assume this wouldn't be available and private health cover or some other paid for cover would be required.

HTH

modicasa

Assicurazione volontaria - which is what you have got - is not available in all regions to EU nationals. It is available to all extracommunitari however.