Renzi watch

Old Jun 29th 2014, 8:36 pm
  #16  
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I am italian and I suggest you to not even try to understand our politics, it's a waste of time.
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Old Jun 29th 2014, 8:43 pm
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Default Re: Renzi watch

[QUOTE=ciquta;11319206]I am italian and I suggest you to not even try to understand our politics, it's a waste of time.[/QUOTE

Unfortunately politics affect everybody living in a country hence, I take, the interest in it. So,maybe understand enough to be able to ''survive'' in the best possible way.
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Old Jun 29th 2014, 9:19 pm
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Long story short:

At the moment Renzi has not enough seats to pick his own decisions (whether good or bad).
At the last political elections his party got roughly 29%, Berlusconi got 28% and Grillo 25%, so he has to deal with other parties and also with people elected with Berlusconi, who of course doesn't want to play the game with his rules.
In addition, his own party is not very solid by itself, some members has different views.

This is why every decision took so long and can be changed.

His strategy is to change the electoral law to let one single party win, and try to make the best to get more votes at the next elections.

At the last european elections (for the first time in our history i think), the party at the goverment raised their votes (his party got 41% against 29% of last year), so it looks like it's working so far.
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Old Jun 29th 2014, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: Renzi watch

Originally Posted by ciquta
His strategy is to change the electoral law to let one single party win, and try to make the best to get more votes at the next elections.
I think the key point for electoral law change is that Renzi and Berlo want to change things to effectively create a 2 party system, which is why they agreed it together. They want to avoid having to deal with all the other parties.

At the moment the centre-right and right are in disarray so PD is the only game in town hence the increase to 41% at the euro elections. Trouble is Burlo can't bring enough votes to pass the election law with Renzi so he (Renzi) has to deal with all the people he wants to eliminate and the turkeys ain't voting for Christmas!
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Old Jun 29th 2014, 10:26 pm
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I disagree.

Of course nobody wants to deal with other parties once they win elections, but in my opinion a double-vote system might be very good for Grillo.
And Berlusconi has much more than enough votes to change le law if only he would like to.

I just think nobody other than Renzi has interest to give more stability to the next govern since at the moment his party has more votes than the others 2 put together.

They should have changed the law one year ago when all the 3 parties shared nearly the same amount of preferences, now it's too late.
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 5:07 am
  #21  
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Berlusconi has absolutely no power at all at the moment. He is a minority party with 2 adversaries against him. He can do nothing except bleat about being a victim. In the space of 6 months he has become totally irrelevant in Italian politics - shame its 20 years too late.
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 7:12 am
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Default Re: Renzi watch

Originally Posted by ciquta

At the last european elections (for the first time in our history i think), the party at the goverment raised their votes (his party got 41% against 29% of last year), so it looks like it's working so far.
estic
Why do you think this was?

I'm afraid that i can't help feeling that he was given a mandate by Italians to try to change Europe/extract concessions.

And cannot help thinking that he has no mandate to change Italy because so many Italians stlll don't want it to change.

Any chance of him seeking a domestic mandate any time soon?

He's still unelected to Parliament himself isn't he?

I do understand of course that he was elected by his party but not quite the same thing.

PS - I'll pop on every now and again to ask again [the simple questions are often the best] and for an update on the original question - what has he changed in Italy?

thanks all for input - interesting.
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 7:33 am
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Default Re: Renzi watch

Originally Posted by ciquta
I disagree.

Of course nobody wants to deal with other parties once they win elections, but in my opinion a double-vote system might be very good for Grillo.
And Berlusconi has much more than enough votes to change le law if only he would like to.

I just think nobody other than Renzi has interest to give more stability to the next govern since at the moment his party has more votes than the others 2 put together.

They should have changed the law one year ago when all the 3 parties shared nearly the same amount of preferences, now it's too late.
Well we will have to agree to disagree then I do agree with your bit in red btw.

for sunnysider:

Renzi gained power exactly like Gordon Brown did by unseating the leader (his own party leader) of the largest bloc in Parliamentand taking over in a bloodless coup.

He has announced his 1000 day plan, which pretty much ties into the election cycle, which is why I believe Renzi has no intention of standing in a general election anytime soon.

His 41% vote gives him the mandate he needs and, as most people on here seem to agree, he is the best man for the job at the moment. Best of a very bad bunch mind (imagine the British House of Commons completely filled by Ed Balls clones and you will get an idea of the Chamber here).
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 7:46 am
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Default Re: Renzi watch

Hi Mike (mind if I call you that? - your full avatar name is a bit tricky)

Yes I know about the Gordon Brown argument - quoted by Italians a lot a think.

But Gordon brown was (is) elected by a constituency of electors and sat/sits in the Commons/Deputies. I know some folk see this is a technicality and probably argue that it would be no problem for Renzi to be parachuted into an election and get the "necessary" seat but it seems vitally important to me.

Thanks for your view on the 1,000 day plan - sounds likely to me.

I remain dubious about the mandate and it would be interesting to know what many of the Italians who voted for him and his team in the EUROPEAN elections thought they were voting for. And what they expected from the result.

Judging by Renzi's progress on the Italian front he doesn't seem to be acting like someone with a commanding Italian mandate. I am not aware, for instance, that spurred on by this mandate/popular acclaim he is doing anything real about the provinces.

But he has started saying lots of critical things about Europe.

And cannot help but think that he will be cheered on in this by the people who elected him/gave him a mandate to do this.

At the risk of going off topic I'm no fan of Gordon Brown or Ed Balls. And my lack of fandom of that pair is not because I'm a Tory. I'm not.

all the best
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 7:52 am
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Default Re: Renzi watch

Democratically elected or not, and like it or not, as from tomorrow Renzi and his crew will be presiding over the Council of the European Union.

He's already announced himself as spokesperson for the "generazione Erasmus". Stay tuned.

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Old Jun 30th 2014, 7:59 am
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Default Re: Renzi watch

Originally Posted by sunnysider
And cannot help thinking that he has no mandate to change Italy because so many Italians stlll don't want it to change
There are 320 seats at the Senato.
Renzi's party have rougly 106.

End of story.


Next elections should be in 2018 (unless the President decided to anticipate), hopefully with a different electoral law.
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 8:12 am
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Originally Posted by sunnysider
no problem for Renzi to be parachuted into an election and get the "necessary" seat but it seems vitally important to me
Let me point out this:

Italy is not like France: tecnically we don't vote for a President, we vote for a Parliament.
So the Parliament has the right to vote/downvote any president according with Napolitano.
In fact, on the PD logo of the election ballot, there was no name, just the party's logo. People just voted the party.

So Renzi was elected, like any other president since WW2, by the Parliament elected from the people.
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 8:21 am
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Default Re: Renzi watch

...as you quite rightly said yourself:

Originally Posted by ciquta
I am italian and I suggest you to not even try to understand our politics, it's a waste of time.
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 8:26 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Renzi watch

Originally Posted by sunnysider
Hi Mike (mind if I call you that? - your full avatar name is a bit tricky)

Yes I know about the Gordon Brown argument - quoted by Italians a lot a think.

But Gordon brown was (is) elected by a constituency of electors and sat/sits in the Commons/Deputies. I know some folk see this is a technicality and probably argue that it would be no problem for Renzi to be parachuted into an election and get the "necessary" seat but it seems vitally important to me.

Thanks for your view on the 1,000 day plan - sounds likely to me.

I remain dubious about the mandate and it would be interesting to know what many of the Italians who voted for him and his team in the EUROPEAN elections thought they were voting for. And what they expected from the result.

Judging by Renzi's progress on the Italian front he doesn't seem to be acting like someone with a commanding Italian mandate. I am not aware, for instance, that spurred on by this mandate/popular acclaim he is doing anything real about the provinces.

But he has started saying lots of critical things about Europe.

And cannot help but think that he will be cheered on in this by the people who elected him/gave him a mandate to do this.

At the risk of going off topic I'm no fan of Gordon Brown or Ed Balls. And my lack of fandom of that pair is not because I'm a Tory. I'm not.

all the best
sunnysider - the thing is the political system is so different here that trying to compare it with UK is like comparing apples with Tuesday not comparing apples with oranges!

Here he doesn't need to be a constituency MP, it doesn't enter into the equation.

To give you some further idea, the President also has some power here. For example the current Finance Minister (who is imho a complete idiot) was forced on Renzi by President Napolitano before he agreed to ask him to become PM.

Can you imagine the Queen demanding to nominate the next Chancellor of the Exchequer before agreeing Milliband can be PM after the next UK election? No - clearly not. However, that kind of thing is normal practice here! Mind you, on second thoughts, it might be worth a try as Auntie Liz would be much to smart to nominate Ed Balls
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Old Jun 30th 2014, 5:41 pm
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Default Re: Renzi watch

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike
Well we will have to agree to disagree then I do agree with your bit in red btw.

for sunnysider:

Renzi gained power exactly like Gordon Brown did by unseating the leader (his own party leader) of the largest bloc in Parliamentand taking over in a bloodless coup.

He has announced his 1000 day plan, which pretty much ties into the election cycle, which is why I believe Renzi has no intention of standing in a general election anytime soon.

His 41% vote gives him the mandate he needs and, as most people on here seem to agree, he is the best man for the job at the moment. Best of a very bad bunch mind (imagine the British House of Commons completely filled by Ed Balls clones and you will get an idea of the Chamber here).


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