Pedemontium

Hi all,

We are just starting our long term planning for retirement. We're a bit early - we are actually not planning to retire for ten years. BUT we are starting to forge a plan. The upside being that it gives us lots of time to research, prepare, learn the language fluently, visit, and basically set everything up for a long and happy retirement. UK citizens, clean criminal/security/financial background.

Why Piemonte?

The climate is very similar to where we live now. Great four season weather. No problem with extreme winter weather and hot dry summers. The economy is similar as is the types of tourism and agricultural based industry.

Living in a pleasant rural area is important to us. There is a trade off with access to services but we are country folk who can access the city just when we need to.

The ability to visit Milan, Turn, the coast, Genoa, other close countries, the Alps, and basically tour around or have weekends away would be perfect. However we can mix that with days just lazing around, enjoying travelling within the region, and life on the patio relaxing.

Other guilty pleasures are cuisine, wine, wineries, cooking, eating out, etc.

General Questions:

Cost of living - typical utilities, internet, heating and any other services or costs such as property tax equivalent. Typical costs for two retired people living moderately well, not on a budget, not high on the hog.

No vehicle or other costs apart from running and maintenance costs, insurance.

Moderate pensions and savings would be used mostly for day to day, week to week enjoyment of life. Trip and adventures. Hard to put a number on our income but we don't expect to have much of a problem with day to day living costs. Cash savings should provide a backup nest egg of $100-200k USD (roughly at todays equivalent).

Healthcare, how good/bad do you find it. Any costs over and above basic healthcare?

Property:

House - we have in mind a smaller farmhouse detached style with a bit of low maintenance land. On current prices all things being equal we'd be looking at $150-200k USD for a decent mostly renovated place, rustic, charming, historic retained features but with creature comforts. Partial renovation would be OK with some sweat equity and bringing in skilled help. Would that budget work within the area at today's pricing? Some view, quiet rural location. Edge of a small village would be preferable maybe a little more isolated but not totally isolated.

Obviously we're very early into the planning stage but we are starting to read more, research, dig deeper, and firm things up as we get closer to the retirement goal.

Questions About the Piemonte Region:

Any thoughts about the Piemonte region, any of the comments and questions I have outlined, would be very much appreciated. Any thoughts about retiring there, problems we may face, hurdles that be unknown right now. "Unknown unknowns". We've relocated numerous times so we are fine with adapting, learning new cultures, beaurocratic loopholes, politics, weird unknown random costs, the difficulties of adapting, etc.

Location:

Any suggestions on idyllic but reasonably priced area? We think central within the region would be best as we can explore in each direction. Any areas to avoid and for any specific reasons?

If you have any thoughts please post them up, whether good, bad or ugly. Anything will be appreciated. Apologies if this is a bit vague but right now it is vague and we'll fine tune things over time. Hopefully with your help.

We understand Brexit may mean something or nothing at this stage, so we're not really going down that rabbit hole right now. Hopefully it won't affect our plans but we're not getting too hung up on it at the moment.

Retirement:

Anything specific that UK citizens should know or factor in when considering a move to Italy?

Thanks in advance. Input greatly appreciated.

37100

A lot will depend on the out come of Brexit.

Geordieborn

Tax?

Efes123

You say you want a rural (outskirts of a village) location, but aren't planning on having a car. You may wish to look at some sort of vehicle, as public transport is very hit and miss in rural locations.

As mentioned by Geordieborn, the tax situation is completely different in Italy, there is no personal allowance for instance

I don't know much about the area you're looking at to be much help. But have you looked at Umbria? It ticks pretty much all of the boxes you're looking for

Pedemontium

I know. As mentioned in my post.

Pedemontium

Sorry, to clarify car purchased with no monthly repayment, just regular maintenance and insurance costs.

We did look at Umbria. The climate is warmer, but there doesn't seem as much in terms of weekends away, touringto bigger cities, and it's more remote. Real estate seems similar priced or more expensive which seems odd as the economy isn't as strong there? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Any thoughts appreciated. Especially regarding property.

However I love Florence so maybe it's worthy of more consideration.

Pedemontium

Could you explain briefly, does "no personal allowance" mean there is more of a "flat rate" taxation policy?

Advice appreciated.

Efes123

Can't get much bigger than Roma, only an hour and a half away by car or train from us Chuisi is 25 minutes away, and from there you can get a train pretty much anywhere. Siena & Florence are about 45 and 60 minutes away. We have Lake Trasimeno about 30 minutes away. Perugia is worth a visit - 30 minutes, and the airport is about 40 minutes away. Mind you, Ancona airport is only one and a half hours away, as is Pisa & Bologna.

Umbria literally has hundreds of borgas, many of which are pretty rural - ours has about 30 people in it, if that, it's fairly rural. Before we moved here, we lived in Suffolk and we found something here that is pretty close to that - agricultural but with some amenities close by. We looked at somewhere rural but with good transport links and cities close enough to visit for the day.

Re tax, there are a few different rates, it depends what work you do. But unless you find a scheme, everyone pays 23% from 1 Euro upwards - I don't recall when the next level kicks in, I don't earn enough . Then there's INPS (NI equivalent) of another 23%. You can see why there is so much work on the black here. Then again, it will all very likely to have changed by the time you get here

Pedemontium

Great info thank you very much.

I am assuming (worst case) that pensionable income from other countries will be taxable at the same rate?

I'd really appreciate info from you about property, what we could get for the money, good/bad areas, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

julia g

Hi
Just seen your post about Piemonte we live here on the outskirts of a small village about 20 kms out side Asti.
I completely agree with your reasons for choosing this area it is very accessible to all other areas. The coast, the mountains, the lakes, France and Switzerland. It is also stunningly beautiful like most areas of Italy. In my opinion the city of Torino is one of the most elegant cities in Europe it is a joy to go for a day of shopping.
I am an obsessed gardener and one of the reasons I chose here was the seasons which are exactly as they should be warm fresh spring, very hot summer, balmy warm autumn's and freezing winters. Overall this area is very dry with little weather extremes. It is a gardeners heaven very fertile grows roses in abundance.
I am a little busy at the moment to write further information but if you would like to read my blog www.juliasitaliangarden.com it will give you an insight into how we found our house , renovating , the area etc etc. I started it a couple of years ago to help other people who were thinking of such a life changing experience. Hope this is of some help to you good luck in your search. I am happy to answer any particular questions on the area.

Geordieborn

Sorry, I was off out to slog in the gardn all day, hence the quick reply... See you have had a few answers. If you are here more than 182 days in the tax year (Jan-Dec here), then tax is 23% upto €15,000, then 27% between 15,000 and 28,000 and things get worse right up to 43% over 75,000 (38% and 41% at 28 and 55 thousand)

Pedemontium

Yes it would be year round residency. Thanks so much.

37100

I read that, hence my response. Unless an unlikely agreement is reached, without free movement you are going to need a retirement visa. A lengthy process without rules set in stone.

Healthcare wise, under present rules, you will either need a UK pension to be covered or health insurance.

As someone else mentioned, you'll find it difficult without a car. Do you have an EU licence?

Pedemontium

Yes, we'll have a car.

Current DL is not reciprocal to Italy so we'd move to the UK for a short while, UK DL is reciprocal so we'd get our UK DL (Euro DL?) which is then reciprocal to Italy.

37100

The Italian authorities ask for a certificate of entitlement proving that you have passed the UK test when renewing a non Italian driving license -your licence is valid until due for renewal under Italian rules which is, over the age of 50, after 5yrs of residency.