Janvdr

Hello everybody,

I need some advice on a buying a property from a public auction (astegiudiziarie.it).
I recently saw a nice farm, completely to be restored, to be sold within 2 months. Apparently this is already the third time that they try to sell the property and the base price has gone down significantly in the meantime.

Has somebody any advice on how the public auction system works and what costs I should consider?

What is letting me down on the property is that it is isolated from any (gravel)road by 500m and subsequently has no electricity, gas, water, etc etc

What cost should I (roughly) take into account to re-establish a gravel road to the property and have electricity & water connected?

Any advice much appreciated, thanks!

Donna Noble

In my opinion, the only way forward would be to ask a local geometra to visit the property with you and quote you for the work to be done. He would also (have to) check permissions with the local council regarding putting in a road etc, and also give you advice about local/regional laws regarding renovating old properties and the timescales involved. He would also be able to check who owns the surrounding land and that you have a wide enough access point to that gravel road to put your own access. Ask him why he thinks the property isn't selling too. It might simply be that the price is too high but best check there's nothing untoward lurking in the paperwork.

modicasa

Its complicated. It depends where. You could well find that your bidding for a property thatthe owners are trying to buy back will not be accetped too kindly. As far as to how the auction works, its a lot of paperwork. If its with incanto, then you will need to put up 10% (which will be cashed before the auction) and make sure your paperwork is completed perfectly, otherwise you will be excluded from the auction. Then you can bid with other bidders in front of the official. If its senza incanto, its a sealed bid, and you have no idea if there will be other bidders.
Then as to water and electricity. ENEL has no obligation to provide electricity, nor the water people. If the supplies have to cross third party property then you can only do so with their consent. (Usually you pay) Even then ENEL can easily say no.
I work in this sector and my advice to anyone who is not completley au fati with italian bureacracy and legal stuff is to avoid such 'bargains'. There's a reason they're cheap and nobody wants them.

giuliana

well said Modicasa!!!

37100

As the place has no services, you need to check that the place has a cert.di abitabilita .

Janvdr

Thank you for the reactions!

The auction is indeed senza incanto, but I don't expect a lot enthusiasm since the current owner is a company which went bankrupt.

I'm indeed more worried about electricity and accessibility. Elecricity needs to cross other persons properties and what used to be the access road (according to the old plans) has now completely disappeared in the surrounding landscape.

For those interested to see what I am talking about, here are the GPS coordinates: 43.308206, 11.572952

Indeed best to attract a geometra, but on the other hand I don't want to spend a few hunderd euros if it is already a 'no-go' case...

modicasa

I doubt there will be water there. YOu would have to sink a well, which could be very expensive. Or if they wont let you do that it would be a cisterna and lorry deliveries. Electricity - its about 500m from the nearest property so in theory about 3000 euros for a connection, but everything depends on your neighbours, and if you have to put the line underground in which case it will be 10K. Then reopening an access roadto 4m wide, and buying the necessary land to widen the existing track. THen 1500 euros psm for the restoration as a minimum, and 3 years of your life. Or plan to do an entirely offgrid property and put aside 30Kfor the solar system.

philat98

In the zone between Siena and Betolle there are plenty of ruined farms in differing states of repair. Since it is such a touristic and desirable part of Italy to live the thing that blocks the restoration must be the cost. The man who owns an adjacent farm could do the restoration much more easily and cheaply than someone from the UK. One thing we have learned from restoring a small barn is that the Comune applies rules differently when dealing with locals and outsiders.

Janvdr

Completely aware it being an adventurous project, however the choice is the following:
- buy a finished, restored property which easily costs more than €800k in this region
- buy a restoration project, which is however already connected to electricity and road access; but can also easily cost €400k - so in the end more expensive than buying a restored property

Since the price of the auction is around €100k, add 10k for electricity, 5k for water provision and ??? for road access: this means still costing less than many other properties on sale in this region. Of course, this doens't take into account the hustle to get everything fixed...

GeorgeYoung

On the other hand, there are pretty significant tax breaks for ristrutturazione. I was reading in Private Eye that renovations in the UK are subject to VAT whereas new builds tend not to be, which is one reason why companies tend to prefer knocking down old buildings and rebuild from scratch.

clint

electricity if you don't get permission from your neighbours you will be up the creek without the proverbial paddle.

Are there any debts against the property? if so you will end up with them too if the property is sold at auction it is more than likely there will be debts

modicasa

From Google it doesnt look very big - 2 rooms and an outhouse? You cant new build or extend what is already there.
The documentation with the auction will tell you if there are debts on the property, but there shouldnt be - they are extinguished with the sale usually.
HOwever to sink a trivella to 150m will cost you much more than 5 grand, and if its 250m you can get to 30K without blinking - thats assuming you would be allowed to.

Janvdr

Actually it's quite large (even too large):

the main building is roughly 20m by 10m, without taking into account the annexes

the barn is roughly 8m by 6m.

Janvdr

So I ended up with contracting a geometra who will investigate the property:
- are there any debts against the property; which hidden costs are involved?
- what are the options for getting electricity & water at the property?
- which options are available/permitted with regards to access road construction?
- what are the renovation requirements by the local government?

It surprised me that the geometra will do this full free of charge, but I guess he expects to gain more work afterwards...