sunnysider

Ps

The only answer to un giorno di happy meetings is a machine gun.

Lorna at Vicenza

Don't worry. A lot of her mates already use the English acronyms in messages because they know damn well that their parents don't know what they mean. Once upon a time all they used was 'cazzo' - 'xchè' (perchè) and 'TVB' (ti voglio bene). Now they use WTF, WGAF, FO, FU, Bitch, Nerd and other useful and admiring expressions. Twenty years ago I saw a huge, scrawly, spray painted squiggle on an Italian wall that read, "**** Da Police." We have come on in the world. Most kids these days know how to spell THE.

sunnysider

Wgaf?

Can guess the f maybe but the rest?

Lorna at Vicenza

Who gives a ....

Pulaski

By the end of the century most of Europe will be predominantly English speaking.

Over the period that I visited Italy regularly, from the mid 1980's to the early 00's, English in Italy went from being barely spoken to fairly widely spoken in the main tourist areas, and by then I noticed that many hording/ print adverts were entirely in English. Germany has gone through the same transition. And every sign is that not only has the trend continued, it has accelerated.

Soon parents in Italy will be doing what Dutch parents have been doing for several decades, and I suspect many German parents are now doing: speaking English at home so that their children will grow up speaking English.

I suspect that the Dutch will go down in history as the first nation to effectively abolish their own language as it is already impossible to get a degree in the Netherlands, or a job with any major employer, without being fluent in English. As such it is hard to find anyone in the Netherlands who doesn't speak English. Most Dutch seem to speak English better than many English people.

modicasa

The difference is that in Holland and northern countries tv is either the BBC or is broadcast in English. Italy is the only country that as a political choice to keep the dumb classes dumb, has pointedly produced appalling tv solely in Italian. Now, with Sky and belatedly mediaset premium, you can watch programmes in original language, but if you have free tv it is still not possible. As to why it's cool- when the parents can speak fluently, it won't be any more. I hate the way the F word in Italy is used with such gay abandon - they really dont get the fact that its not a word you can drop into a conversation with your gran. With my students in Naples I used to tell them it was worse than calling your mate a sonofabitch - which in the south is the worst possible insult, and they were a bit more circumspect.
As to acronyms - they are vile, another way of pretending to know English without learning it - which seems to be in vogue for most of the world these days. In 50 years, although as Pulaski says most of Europe will speak English, it will be a bastardised, post Americanised version that will make no sense. If you can't construct a sentence properly what is the point of speaking the same language if people cant understand you? Only the Finns will speak English properly; already they speak it better than the English.

37100

Yet, when they are here, Lake Garda, they often refuse to speak English unless they have to. When holidaying here, they expect their service to be in Dutch. I wonder, is the Dutch language fighting back?

I only have free TV in Turin, but I can get original language. Admittedly, I rarely watch tv so I dont know what proportion has the option. Don't know about state TV. Except for the news, I rarely watch it.

MarkRD

I certainly hope not because the standard is so poor, even among those with a 'better' education. It's easier for the Dutch to switch to English becuase of the similarities in phonetics and intonation - certainly not so for Italians who usually find it easier to 'switch' to, say, Spanish, although even then they make a lot of mistakes.
Plus all this talk about teaching in English in universities is rubbish - I happened to hear a lesson on mathematics (or statistics) on the Pegaso channel recently given by an Italian professore (naturally not exactly a sping chicken) and his English was dreadful. What's the point? They do some courses in English at my daughter's uni but at least they get native-speaker professori in to hold them.

Btw on the subject of telly in English I happened by chance on The Three Musketeers (?) the other night on Italia1 (satellitare not Sky) and also accidentally discovered you can switch to lingua originale. I'm not sure how many programmes are being broadcast in this way though.

modicasa

Btw on the subject of telly in English I happened by chance on The Three Musketeers (?) the other night on Italia1 (satellitare not Sky) and also accidentally discovered you can switch to lingua originale.

I can't. RAi and Mediaset channels dont offer original language - isnt that strange?

MarkRD

Do you have a button on your normal remote control that allows you to switch audio? It's worked for me on a couple of Mediaset telefilm.

37100

I don't. Its an older TV. I have to switch the language on the TV's menu.

modicasa

I have only sky, so use the sky remote to change language on everything, but it doesnt offer original language on Rai or Mediaset... clever rupert murdoch marketing perhaps.....

Pinco Pallino

I always thought that this practice dated back to the Fascist era / the early days of newsreels and 'talkies', and was used as a means of exercising censorship and practising propaganda. (I think that the same might also have been true in Spain and Germany.)

It always appals me that Italian actors who dub / do voiceovers can become minor celebrities just for 'being the voice of' 'Tom Crooiz' or 'Eddi Merfey' or 'Merrill Strip' etc. I guess that nobody in the 'biz' has ever wanted the dubbing industry in Rome not to thrive at the expense of potentially educational and relatively inexpensive subtitling.

ononno

Dubbing was a legal requirement until about 1980, fascist law not repealed or modified until then.

chris120

Both RAI and mediaset (and a few other oddball channels) offer original sound track on some programs. Either inside your TV set up menu under audio settings or (if more modern) via a button on the remote. Mostly films and things like CSI