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Italy and the Eurozone

Italy and the Eurozone

Old Aug 20th 2014, 11:14 am
  #106  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Originally Posted by sunnysider
Hi ononno

I'm sure you meant well but I am afraid you are allowing him to do one of his bizarrely motivated thread diversions - all of which sign off with an equally bizarre attack on supposedly disloyal Italians of one ilk or other.

Anyone got any information/reasoned views/Italian clips on Italy and the Eurozone?

Whatever happens it seems pretty clear that the next year is going to be, er, interesting, what with Renzi and Draghi's meetings etc etc.
There is nothing bizzare about it. Many of your citizens are decapitating Syrian and foreign hostages in the Middle East. This is fact.

Yet you pick on trivialities affecting foreigners who visit Italy (queuing in the Comune is an atrocity I guess) yet you have nothing to say on the mess that is your society. I am basing this comment on the assumption that a society that creates monsters who cut other people's body parts off isn't really fit to make continous negative judgements on the way other countries conduct their business..

anyway I'll change my signature since you find it so annoying. I may quote some of the BE posters just for par condicio.

Last edited by fleetwoodmac1975; Aug 20th 2014 at 11:41 am.
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Old Aug 20th 2014, 11:45 am
  #107  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Originally Posted by 37100
What a ridiculous direction this thread has taken!
I agree. Time to retrench & rethink people.

Back to topic please.

Any of you want to talk about a topic other than Italy and Eurozone please feel free to open your own thread .

Cheers beers.


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Old Aug 20th 2014, 11:47 am
  #108  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Originally Posted by fleetwoodmac1975
There is nothing bizzare about it. Many of your citizens are decapitating Syrian and foreign hostages in the Middle East. This is fact.

Yet you pick on trivialities affecting foreigners who visit Italy (queuing in the Comune is an atrocity I guess) yet you have nothing to say on the mess that is your society. I am basing this comment on the assumption that a society that creates monsters who cut other people's body parts off isn't really fit to make continous negative judgements on the way other countries conduct their business..

anyway I'll change my signature since you find it so annoying. I may quote some of the BE posters just for par condicio.
Well, I for one, have spent 10yrs sitting in various comunes because of a problem no on seemed to know how or bother to find out how to solve. 10yrs is not trivial! All it took was a couple of phone calls to solve. So yes, I will moan about the comune, but also praise to women who took it upon herself to sort it out.

Now, could we stay on thread please.
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Old Aug 20th 2014, 12:02 pm
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

I hope so.

I'm a bit of an old bag and not loverley like Lorna. Me is what you lot have got for a fair few days & I really can't be arrised with rot.



So. Anyone want to talk about Syria and decapitated heads then open your own thread . Feel free. I will let it remain here or I may remove it to TIO. Depends on what I read.
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Old Aug 20th 2014, 12:29 pm
  #110  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

I'd also like to add, that we welcome all here, however this site is aimed at British citizens living all around the world and the content of this site reflects that. A Brit abroad is quite entitled to have a moan, and doing it here offers them a safe place to do just that, so they don't unintentionally upset their friends and neighbours in their new country.

We all need a vent now and again. So if someone who isn't British comes to this site and doesn't like that, then you might be better off on a forum that meets your needs. I know it sounds blunt but it needs to be said.

Thanks, now back to the topic in hand:

Originally Posted by Sancho
This appeared in the FT the other day. I'm afraid I wasn't reassured. I wonder what other members think -

August 10, 2014 5:04 pm

Matteo Renzi defends pace of Italian reform

By Rachel Sanderson in Rome

Matteo Renzi, Italy’s prime minister, says the eurozone’s third-largest economy is on track to hit its EU-mandated budget targets this year despite falling back into recession in the second quarter and, in a pugnacious interview with the Financial Times, defended the speed at which his reforms are moving.

Mr Renzi, speaking in the prime minister’s office in Rome, rejected suggestions made by European Central Bank president Mario Draghi last week that the EU should intervene in countries where reforms were not being implemented fast enough to spur economic growth.

“I agree with Draghi when he says that Italy needs to make reforms but how we are going to do them I will decide, not the Troika, not the ECB, not the European Commission,” he said. “I will do the reforms myself because Italy does not need someone else to explain what to do.”

On Wednesday it was revealed that Italy unexpectedly fell back into recession in the second quarter for the third time since 2008. The economy shrank 0.2 per cent quarter-on-quarter between April and June, after contracting 0.1 per cent in the first three months of the year, having only briefly emerged from two years of recession at the end of 2013.

Economists have said the fall in gross domestic product may result in the general government budget deficit breaching the EU’s 3 per cent of GDP threshold for 2014. Fabio Fois, an economist at Barclays in Milan, expects the deficit will pass the 3 per cent limit unless the government cuts spending by between €1.2bn and €3.2bn.

Mr Renzi, who took power in a party coup in February and whose centre-left democratic party won a landslide victory in the European elections in May with an unprecedented 40 per cent of the vote, vowed to take personal control of Italy’s ongoing spending review to ensure compliance with the EU targets.

“I have absolutely no intention of breaking the 3 per cent ceiling. We hope to have better [growth] figures in the second half and as a result will be at 2.9 per cent [of GDP]. We will not break 3 per cent, it is an old rule, but it is still a matter of credibility and of reputation for Italy even if others will surpass it,” he said.

The 39-year-old former mayor of Florence appeared to backtrack on previous demands for the EU to introduce more flexibility to its budget rules, but admitted feeling worried about potential deflation in the eurozone.

“I’m not a fearful person by nature . . . but it would make me happy if the euro weren’t as strong against the dollar and if inflation were a bit higher,” he said.

Mr Renzi, who has just won parliament’s first approval for a landmark reform of Italy’s Senate, defended his decision to give priority to the Senate overhaul – which ultimately will see the end of Italy’s two-chamber system and slashes the number of senators to 100 from 320 – over labour reform and tax cuts as “absolutely the most important [reform] to achieve because it was the most difficult”.

On a day when national airline Alitalia signed a deal allowing Emirates-owned Etihad to become its largest shareholder, Mr Renzi added he was “flinging wide open the doors” of Italy to foreign investors and cited upcoming investments by Chinese, Indian and US investors in Italian assets.

“We are going to bring this country out of the crisis, Italy has a great future, Italian finances are under control, we will continue to lower taxes, we will do revolutionary things . . . Not even dictators managed to get things done as fast as this,” he said.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8f677018-2...#axzz3A3V0Ql5D

Also this, from the WSJ -

Italy's Problem Is Europe's Problem

Also, irrespective of who wrote it and where it appeared, I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this - Is it do-able ? Would it work ? What would the consequences be in Italy and beyond ? (Would it mean the break-up of the EZ ?) Would it be permitted ? Could they stop it ? If so how ? etc.

Italy's Renzi must bring back the lira to end depression
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Old Aug 20th 2014, 2:25 pm
  #111  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Should have added this, maybe - Che succede se l'Italia esce dall'euro: fact checking

Whether you agree with him or not, it's good to see how the writer doesn't try to avoid the subject
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Old Aug 20th 2014, 2:49 pm
  #112  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Both the slides and the writers responses are quite interesting but lets not forget that tthe actual conversion Euro was a gradual process that lasted several years and the currencies that opted in disappeared in a controlled process . If Italy were to opt out then the process would result in a new currency trading alongside the EUR . Why asume everything would be redenominated ? The point made on the '' titoli di Stato '' is misleading in that when the euro fluctuates against the usd plenty of people worry about it . The writer also assumes that the goverment would be able to continue raising money by issuing bonds but that is not necessarily the case .
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Old Aug 20th 2014, 5:24 pm
  #113  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Originally Posted by sunnysider
PS - does ItaLondon by any chance have any thoughts on this?

Isn't he a banker/involved in the financial sector?

I certainly don't claim to be any sort of economics major.
The only way for Italy to improve is to:

1. look to make debt payments of 3 percent of GDP per year for a minimium of 10 years (so that the debt levels are below when Italy joined the euro) in 1999.

This will show economic control and is not excessive and will encourage economic growth/investment.

2. Encourage supply side growth. It is very difficult and very expensive to form a company (limited) unlike the UK and takes months. Accounting/returns are expensive. This is a quick win. Netherlands reducted the rules and new companies are booming.

3. Allow part-time working with low business rates/contibutions. Allow businesses to take tax holidays especially where they hire 1-3 employees.

4. Increase competition between banks for both personal / business debt.

5. Government take a long term finance partner for Italian companies so that investment can take place.

6. lower IVA/Tax (Capital/Expenditure) for new start ups.

7. Look for Head Office Companies... (like Switzerland). No company Tax for Head Offices (so that owners, top senior staff) are located in Italy and pay local tax.

8. Italian Trade - Export driven. (Embassies are changed to focus on trade as well as local assistance).

9. Regional Assistance/Italian Business Clubs more known to encourage new businesses. Marketing of Italian businesses are not known.

10. Export energy. Push solar and other renewables so that the country starts to export energy.
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Old Aug 23rd 2014, 2:38 pm
  #114  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

In English.

Sancho or someone may have a more detailed Italian clip/link

Italy asks EU to exclude infrastructure projects from deficits: minister | Reuters
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Old Aug 23rd 2014, 5:32 pm
  #115  
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This is not really new news but has been around for some years now. Not only in Italy, but France, Spain, Portugal.....It's part of the structural deficit debate. Also in the US, UK, there is a view that infrastructure projects should be excluded from deficit numbers. Could well be in Chancellor in waiting Ball's agenda.
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Old Aug 23rd 2014, 7:33 pm
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Originally Posted by sunnysider
In English.

Sancho or someone may have a more detailed Italian clip/link

Italy asks EU to exclude infrastructure projects from deficits: minister | Reuters
could it be that a lot of infrastucture in the south may be affected by the mafia,although we are seeing a lot of progess down here with a link to lamezia airport to east coast almost finished.i cant believe this country is so weak in combating these knobs,it is a total joke it would never happen in any other civilized society,cheers brian.
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Old Aug 23rd 2014, 7:54 pm
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Thank you Brian for your polite and respectful words.
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Old Aug 23rd 2014, 8:57 pm
  #118  
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Originally Posted by sunnysider
In English.

Sancho or someone may have a more detailed Italian clip/link

Italy asks EU to exclude infrastructure projects from deficits: minister | Reuters
The interview was in today's Corriere della Sera, but all I can find at the moment is a copy - Lupi: non pesino sul deficit i costi 
per le infrastrutture | Rassegna Stampa di VeneziePost

I think it should be taken as one of a lot of rumours being aired at the moment, or perhaps kites being flown - state salaries to be cut, not to be cut, to be frozen, the famous 80€ to be discontinued, to be continued, to have to be paid back, some pensions to be cut or not, etc.

Cf. this - http://www.corriere.it/economia/14_a...94bc7e0e.shtml

Last edited by Sancho; Aug 23rd 2014 at 9:01 pm.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 5:54 am
  #119  
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Default Re: Italy and the Eurozone

Originally Posted by isshin
Thank you Brian for your polite and respectful words.
no probs mate,i can be impolite and disrespectful if you prefer,perhaps the truth hurts a little,cheers brian.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 6:10 am
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Capo Boi
This is not really new news but has been around for some years now.
mm - I think I'd disagree about it not being news Capo, even though Renzi has mentioned it before.

It shows that he's still in an extremely tight corner, still trying to negotiate terms with a Europe he sees as overbearing.

The outcome of this debate could have profound consequences for Europe, Italian internal politics and Italian sovereignty.

Britain it hardly needs stating isn't in the Euro so it's thoughts on how infrastructure projects should be counted aren't really relevant.

I was going to allude as well to certain organisations' interest in Italian infrastructure projects but Brian got there first.
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