But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
Jul 4th 2016, 7:21 pm
#16
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Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
My Italian girlfriend foresees lots of problems form me living and working here from now onwards......
Jul 4th 2016, 9:28 pm
#17
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Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
And I'm not crossing that bridge until and if I need to either. Just sit back and wait to see what more bullshit comes out. There's not a lot we can do right now.
Jul 19th 2016, 8:04 pm
#19
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Location: Provincia di Treviso
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Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
Pretty much all those we know and come into contact with up here in the Veneto are fully aware of and ask what our views of Brexit are and most are envious, saying they would like to be given the same opportunity to vote for an Italian exit. Many of these would also like to leave, though they do concede, and I agree, that Italy would be less likely to succeed outside the EU than I believe the UK will - eventually.
I take the view that political establishments that are allowed to continue unchanged for decades need a jolt (or a damned good kick in the rear) to prevent sclerotic inertia and / or corruption from becoming so ingrained as to become almost ineradicable. The post-war successive Christian Democrat governments in Italy and the LDP governments in late 20th century Japan are examples and I believe that the political elite in the EU have become similarly entrenched, pervasive and distanced from the populations of the individual constituent countries. Much of dear Mr. Junker's ire is because the UK's referendum has exposed "his" EU to a scrutiny that he wants to smother. The UK has had the effrontery to call into question the rational for continuing the appalling profligacy of the EU, the reduction of individual countries' sovereignty, the extension of a type of cronyism with which the Italians are all too familiar into a pan-European model. No wonder those that we come into contact with approve of what the UK has done.
I take the view that political establishments that are allowed to continue unchanged for decades need a jolt (or a damned good kick in the rear) to prevent sclerotic inertia and / or corruption from becoming so ingrained as to become almost ineradicable. The post-war successive Christian Democrat governments in Italy and the LDP governments in late 20th century Japan are examples and I believe that the political elite in the EU have become similarly entrenched, pervasive and distanced from the populations of the individual constituent countries. Much of dear Mr. Junker's ire is because the UK's referendum has exposed "his" EU to a scrutiny that he wants to smother. The UK has had the effrontery to call into question the rational for continuing the appalling profligacy of the EU, the reduction of individual countries' sovereignty, the extension of a type of cronyism with which the Italians are all too familiar into a pan-European model. No wonder those that we come into contact with approve of what the UK has done.
Jul 20th 2016, 7:11 am
#20
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Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
Pretty much all those we know and come into contact with up here in the Veneto are fully aware of and ask what our views of Brexit are and most are envious, saying they would like to be given the same opportunity to vote for an Italian exit. Many of these would also like to leave, though they do concede, and I agree, that Italy would be less likely to succeed outside the EU than I believe the UK will - eventually.
I take the view that political establishments that are allowed to continue unchanged for decades need a jolt (or a damned good kick in the rear) to prevent sclerotic inertia and / or corruption from becoming so ingrained as to become almost ineradicable. The post-war successive Christian Democrat governments in Italy and the LDP governments in late 20th century Japan are examples and I believe that the political elite in the EU have become similarly entrenched, pervasive and distanced from the populations of the individual constituent countries. Much of dear Mr. Junker's ire is because the UK's referendum has exposed "his" EU to a scrutiny that he wants to smother. The UK has had the effrontery to call into question the rational for continuing the appalling profligacy of the EU, the reduction of individual countries' sovereignty, the extension of a type of cronyism with which the Italians are all too familiar into a pan-European model. No wonder those that we come into contact with approve of what the UK has done.
I take the view that political establishments that are allowed to continue unchanged for decades need a jolt (or a damned good kick in the rear) to prevent sclerotic inertia and / or corruption from becoming so ingrained as to become almost ineradicable. The post-war successive Christian Democrat governments in Italy and the LDP governments in late 20th century Japan are examples and I believe that the political elite in the EU have become similarly entrenched, pervasive and distanced from the populations of the individual constituent countries. Much of dear Mr. Junker's ire is because the UK's referendum has exposed "his" EU to a scrutiny that he wants to smother. The UK has had the effrontery to call into question the rational for continuing the appalling profligacy of the EU, the reduction of individual countries' sovereignty, the extension of a type of cronyism with which the Italians are all too familiar into a pan-European model. No wonder those that we come into contact with approve of what the UK has done.
Jul 20th 2016, 8:50 am
#21
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Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
"Sclerotic inertia" and ingrained corruption are certainly things to be considered, but the nature of the EU and of the various national governments is determined mainly by the big business interests they represent. No point in talking about "sovereignty"; I'm old enough to remember how much sovereignty ordinary working people in the UK had before 1973: none at all. On the other hand there's no lack of control over their own lives for the Oxford Union hacks on either side of Parliament, whether inside or outside the EU.
By the way, I'm not at all anxious to get the approval of the racist rabble of the Northern League. Like the UKIP they're only interested in getting votes by whatever demagogy they find convenient. They've no idea of how they'd make their economy run better by detaching themselves from the EU, the euro or Italy.
I'd like to see a united Europe, but run on a completely different basis from the EU. Breaking up into smaller and smaller units doesn't solve anything for anyone.
By the way, I'm not at all anxious to get the approval of the racist rabble of the Northern League. Like the UKIP they're only interested in getting votes by whatever demagogy they find convenient. They've no idea of how they'd make their economy run better by detaching themselves from the EU, the euro or Italy.
I'd like to see a united Europe, but run on a completely different basis from the EU. Breaking up into smaller and smaller units doesn't solve anything for anyone.
Last edited by jonwel; Jul 20th 2016 at 10:08 am.
Jul 20th 2016, 11:13 am
#22
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 254
Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
I live in the Veneto too and the pro-Brexit views described above by Plan B absolutely no way reflect the opinions of Italian friends, neighbours, colleagues and "people in the street" I have spoken to about the issue.
They have all been perplexed as to why the UK would want to leave rather than resolving the EU's weaknesses from the inside and at the same time shocked at the racism that has been unleashed since the vote.
I think maybe Plan B lives in a Lega Nord enclave?
They have all been perplexed as to why the UK would want to leave rather than resolving the EU's weaknesses from the inside and at the same time shocked at the racism that has been unleashed since the vote.
I think maybe Plan B lives in a Lega Nord enclave?
Jul 20th 2016, 11:38 am
#23
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Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
"Sclerotic inertia" and ingrained corruption are certainly things to be considered, but the nature of the EU and of the various national governments is determined mainly by the big business interests they represent. No point in talking about "sovereignty"; I'm old enough to remember how much sovereignty ordinary working people in the UK had before 1973: none at all. On the other hand there's no lack of control over their own lives for the Oxford Union hacks on either side of Parliament, whether inside or outside the EU.
By the way, I'm not at all anxious to get the approval of the racist rabble of the Northern League. Like the UKIP they're only interested in getting votes by whatever demagogy they find convenient. They've no idea of how they'd make their economy run better by detaching themselves from the EU, the euro or Italy.
I'd like to see a united Europe, but run on a completely different basis from the EU. Breaking up into smaller and smaller units doesn't solve anything for anyone.
By the way, I'm not at all anxious to get the approval of the racist rabble of the Northern League. Like the UKIP they're only interested in getting votes by whatever demagogy they find convenient. They've no idea of how they'd make their economy run better by detaching themselves from the EU, the euro or Italy.
I'd like to see a united Europe, but run on a completely different basis from the EU. Breaking up into smaller and smaller units doesn't solve anything for anyone.
Veneto is the lega nord stronghold and we all know that they will say anything (ruspe, guns etc come to mind) to get a few more votes, it is only in the last couple of years they have stopped this stupidity of demanding a referendum for an independent Padania
Rather than the admiration of a bunch of leghisti I would prefer to take my chances with a few cobras their venom is probably not as deadly
Jul 23rd 2016, 12:31 pm
#24
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 8
Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
Pretty much all those we know and come into contact with up here in the Veneto are fully aware of and ask what our views of Brexit are and most are envious, saying they would like to be given the same opportunity to vote for an Italian exit. Many of these would also like to leave, though they do concede, and I agree, that Italy would be less likely to succeed outside the EU than I believe the UK will - eventually.
I take the view that political establishments that are allowed to continue unchanged for decades need a jolt (or a damned good kick in the rear) to prevent sclerotic inertia and / or corruption from becoming so ingrained as to become almost ineradicable. The post-war successive Christian Democrat governments in Italy and the LDP governments in late 20th century Japan are examples and I believe that the political elite in the EU have become similarly entrenched, pervasive and distanced from the populations of the individual constituent countries. Much of dear Mr. Junker's ire is because the UK's referendum has exposed "his" EU to a scrutiny that he wants to smother. The UK has had the effrontery to call into question the rational for continuing the appalling profligacy of the EU, the reduction of individual countries' sovereignty, the extension of a type of cronyism with which the Italians are all too familiar into a pan-European model. No wonder those that we come into contact with approve of what the UK has done.
I take the view that political establishments that are allowed to continue unchanged for decades need a jolt (or a damned good kick in the rear) to prevent sclerotic inertia and / or corruption from becoming so ingrained as to become almost ineradicable. The post-war successive Christian Democrat governments in Italy and the LDP governments in late 20th century Japan are examples and I believe that the political elite in the EU have become similarly entrenched, pervasive and distanced from the populations of the individual constituent countries. Much of dear Mr. Junker's ire is because the UK's referendum has exposed "his" EU to a scrutiny that he wants to smother. The UK has had the effrontery to call into question the rational for continuing the appalling profligacy of the EU, the reduction of individual countries' sovereignty, the extension of a type of cronyism with which the Italians are all too familiar into a pan-European model. No wonder those that we come into contact with approve of what the UK has done.
Closed sales of public assets to friends of government, MPs on boards of or 'advisors' to multinationals which then get big contracts with NHS etc.
Widespread expenses fraud.
UK government is as bad as any European bad state is, they know they can get away with it all as media won't call them out on it.....they are owned by the politicians' friends.
We go to war on someone else's say so, set off by corporations' need to expand and own as much of the planet as they can. Millions die, someone makes a profit.
This "we need to take back control" nonsense is nothing of the sort, we are buying nuclear weapons that can only be used if USA says so.
Jul 23rd 2016, 1:51 pm
#25
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Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 709
Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
Very good until you think about a Minister having his friend in high level meetings, giving his business cards out yet had no clearance nor approval to be at those meetings. That minister is now back in Cabinet.
Closed sales of public assets to friends of government, MPs on boards of or 'advisors' to multinationals which then get big contracts with NHS etc.
Widespread expenses fraud.
UK government is as bad as any European bad state is, they know they can get away with it all as media won't call them out on it.....they are owned by the politicians' friends.
We go to war on someone else's say so, set off by corporations' need to expand and own as much of the planet as they can. Millions die, someone makes a profit.
This "we need to take back control" nonsense is nothing of the sort, we are buying nuclear weapons that can only be used if USA says so.
Closed sales of public assets to friends of government, MPs on boards of or 'advisors' to multinationals which then get big contracts with NHS etc.
Widespread expenses fraud.
UK government is as bad as any European bad state is, they know they can get away with it all as media won't call them out on it.....they are owned by the politicians' friends.
We go to war on someone else's say so, set off by corporations' need to expand and own as much of the planet as they can. Millions die, someone makes a profit.
This "we need to take back control" nonsense is nothing of the sort, we are buying nuclear weapons that can only be used if USA says so.
In other words they offer a choice between having the corporations rule us through Brussels or London. Like "workers' control", where they offer you a choice between a red or a yellow screwdriver while the important decisions are taken in the boardrooms.
Jul 23rd 2016, 4:00 pm
#26
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 404
Re: But what do the Italians think of Brexit?
In Trentino, most people I speak to have expressed incredulity at the result of the vote, usually asking "what are the British thinking?" A few have also followed that up by saying "you've always been a bit separate though", which is true. Only a couple of people have said to me that they are pleased. I get the impression that Trentino is fairly pro-European and certainly all the talk of Austria closing the Brenner Pass (or at least re-introducing border checks) has been met with anger in the region. Possibly with the autonomy that the Trentini have, they're happier to be answerable to Brussels than Rome?
