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Old Apr 8th 2017, 7:45 am   #1
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Default The Viceroy's House

I saw this film recently and was surprised that it does present a reasonable picture of the chaos of Partition. Perhaps a bit too kind to Mountbatten and the imperial rulers of the Raj. Not at all sympathetic to Mohammed Ali Jinnah !
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Old May 3rd 2017, 4:47 pm   #2
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

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Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
I saw this film recently and was surprised that it does present a reasonable picture of the chaos of Partition. Perhaps a bit too kind to Mountbatten and the imperial rulers of the Raj. Not at all sympathetic to Mohammed Ali Jinnah !
You just need to look at the financing, producers , production teams etc.
It's a co Indian British production, so obviously biased against Jinnah.
How deeply did it go into alledged relationship between Nehru and Lady Mountbatten ?
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Old May 3rd 2017, 5:09 pm   #3
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

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Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
reasonable picture of the chaos of Partition
Try telling that to the people with dead relatives. The history of the British empire has always been sanitised.
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Old May 3rd 2017, 5:26 pm   #4
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

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Originally Posted by EMR View Post
You just need to look at the financing, producers , production teams etc.
It's a co Indian British production, so obviously biased against Jinnah.
How deeply did it go into alledged relationship between Nehru and Lady Mountbatten ?
Hello EMR!:lol
Haven't seen the film, but heard so much from people there at the time and read about it extensively. It was a very complex situation.

Jinnah wanted a separate state, thought it the only way for those Muslims in the north of India. He had a good relationship with Gandhi who suggested to Nehru that Jinnah should be PM after independence but Nehru was not keen.

The tragedy of Partition was due to the speed at which it happened at the insistance of Attlee and the secretary who just made a line down a map for the boundary without any knowledge of what he was doing.
I don't know how the outcome could have been seen as reasonable!
Jinnah unfortunately was already ill with TB so did not rule 'Pakistan' for long, how history might have been different if he had survived longer he was a good man.

Nehru and Edwina had a romantic love affair, this is well known. They wrote to each other daily when apart. The Mountbattens had an 'open' marriage. Each had lovers, but I have heard Lady Patricia Mountbatten speak on TV and say that she was certain the relationship with Nehru was not sexual. (Apparently the daughters knew all about the parents various affairs etc.)
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Old May 3rd 2017, 5:38 pm   #5
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

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Originally Posted by geoff52 View Post
Try telling that to the people with dead relatives. The history of the British empire has always been sanitised.
There is now a trend of" sanitising " history in the cinema.
Just as this film paints a one sided picture so does another recently released much publicised Turkish financed film that ignores the truth of the Armenian genocide.
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Old May 3rd 2017, 5:43 pm   #6
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

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Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Hello EMR!:lol
Haven't seen the film, but heard so much from people there at the time and read about it extensively. It was a very complex situation.

Jinnah wanted a separate state, thought it the only way for those Muslims in the north of India. He had a good relationship with Gandhi who suggested to Nehru that Jinnah should be PM after independence but Nehru was not keen.

The tragedy of Partition was due to the speed at which it happened at the insistance of Attlee and the secretary who just made a line down a map for the boundary without any knowledge of what he was doing.
I don't know how the outcome could have been seen as reasonable!
Jinnah unfortunately was already ill with TB so did not rule 'Pakistan' for long, how history might have been different if he had survived longer he was a good man.

Nehru and Edwina had a romantic love affair, this is well known. They wrote to each other daily when apart. The Mountbattens had an 'open' marriage. Each had lovers, but I have heard Lady Patricia Mountbatten speak on TV and say that she was certain the relationship with Nehru was not sexual. (Apparently the daughters knew all about the parents various affairs etc.)
Gillingham Anderson ( lady Mountbatten ) has said in an interview that the producers, backers and Indian government wanted the alledged affair brushed over in the film.
Earlier attempts film similar stories were cancelled when the Indian government made it clear that that access to India would be denied if the film script did not meet with its approval.
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Old May 3rd 2017, 5:43 pm   #7
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Hello EMR!:lol
Haven't seen the film, but heard so much from people there at the time and read about it extensively. It was a very complex situation.

Jinnah wanted a separate state, thought it the only way for those Muslims in the north of India. He had a good relationship with Gandhi who suggested to Nehru that Jinnah should be PM after independence but Nehru was not keen.

The tragedy of Partition was due to the speed at which it happened at the insistance of Attlee and the secretary who just made a line down a map for the boundary without any knowledge of what he was doing.
I don't know how the outcome could have been seen as reasonable!
Jinnah unfortunately was already ill with TB so did not rule 'Pakistan' for long, how history might have been different if he had survived longer he was a good man.

Nehru and Edwina had a romantic love affair, this is well known. They wrote to each other daily when apart. The Mountbattens had an 'open' marriage. Each had lovers, but I have heard Lady Patricia Mountbatten speak on TV and say that she was certain the relationship with Nehru was not sexual. (Apparently the daughters knew all about the parents various affairs etc.)
Gillingham Anderson ( lady Mountbatten ) has said in an interview that the producers, backers and Indian government wanted the alledged affair brushed over in the film.
Earlier attempts to film similar stories were cancelled when the Indian government made it clear that that access to India would be denied if the film script did not meet with its approval.
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Old May 3rd 2017, 6:10 pm   #8
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Gillingham Anderson ( lady Mountbatten ) has said in an interview that the producers, backers and Indian government wanted the alledged affair brushed over in the film.
Earlier attempts to film similar stories were cancelled when the Indian government made it clear that that access to India would be denied if the film script did not meet with its approval.
I suppose just for the film, but the relationship was well known. The father of Nehru also had affairs which were 'brushed over'!! Rumours about a-half-brother of Nehru etc.

Patricia Mountbatten, as I said above has spoken about it on TV.
Apparently Nehru went through torment as to how to proceed during independence matters and he could trust Edwina as someone to talk and write to. When she died apparently a pile of his letters were on her bedside table. He was a great writer particularly when in prison, books and letters ++.

OH says there were newspaper photos at the time showing Nehru at night-time knocking on the door of the Viceroy House with captions about 'what is he doing there'.---(OH was a young teenager at the time).
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Old May 4th 2017, 4:13 pm   #9
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

One of the aspects that interested me was the fact that the details of partition and the Line of Control had been worked out long before Mountbatten was appointed. I am not sure if that is historically accurate. Must ask my pal and fellow-Scot, William Dalrymple.
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Old May 4th 2017, 5:29 pm   #10
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

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Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
One of the aspects that interested me was the fact that the details of partition and the Line of Control had been worked out long before Mountbatten was appointed. I am not sure if that is historically accurate. Must ask my pal and fellow-Scot, William Dalrymple.
I think there is/was a lot of confusion. The idea of Partition itself was going on for years.
A rough idea of the Partition line was drawn up by the previous Viceroy, but the eventual line was drawn by Sir Cyril Radcliffe (who had never been to India and knew little!). I don't think Mountbatten had much to do with the line.
The main problem the short time, a few weeks, to do the line at the insistance of Attlee. Also the complete failure to consider the reality of what would happen when millions of people on both sides of the line would be displaced from their homes.

I think William Dalrymple is too young to have been there at the time!
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Old May 4th 2017, 6:32 pm   #11
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

Another line drawn by the British {& French) - still causing problems.
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Old May 4th 2017, 6:33 pm   #12
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

It's Gillian - not Gillingham!
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Old May 4th 2017, 9:05 pm   #13
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

Dalrymple is a serious historian who accesses sources in Urdu and Hindi as well as English. I recommend his works to the interested reader.
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Old May 4th 2017, 9:06 pm   #14
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

Partition created more problems than it solved. that was also true in Ireland wheer it divided the 32-county State, and in Cyprus. It did not help much in Mandate Palestine either.
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Old May 4th 2017, 9:29 pm   #15
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Default Re: The Viceroy's House

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Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
Dalrymple is a serious historian who accesses sources in Urdu and Hindi as well as English. I recommend his works to the interested reader.
Yes I know, OH is a great admirer, I have read less of his books. OH had a cousin in the police force who was in the 'guard' of Nehru when he came to Mumbai after independence and allowed his young cousin to get close to view, (totally against the rules!!). The main impression was his very 'pink' complexion. (Nehru was a Kashmiri Pandit, and they are very fair skinned).
We have a shelf of his books which I am ashamed to say I have never read.
His post independence politics is not now so much admired.
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