AandP

Hi, we are from the UK and an issue that has come up on a reply to a post I made on another part of the forum which has got me wondering.

It's been mentioned that we may not be granted a visa "if the border agent feels you are not a genuine tourist. Owning a property and wanting to stay 6 months every year may make them suspicious that you are trying to live in Australia without the proper visa"

From what I can see with a visitor visa subclass 600 we can stay in Australia for 6 months. We are also allowed to buy a property as a visitor so was wondering if the quote above would apply? Is that not a proper visa for what we want to do?

Basically we would like to come to Australia for just under 6 months every year and live in our own property. Does any one know if that would be grounds for being refused a visa each year?

Many thanks.

Pollyana

If DOHA (thats Aussie Immigration) believe that you are actually trying to live in Aus, while holding a tourist visa, they may refuse you entry. Its down to the person on the day.
If you own a property here, and are spending several months a year here, that would increase the chances of themthinking you are actually living here, whilst only holding a tourist visa.
Their suspicions will be even greater if you are of an age to be still working, as they may well believe that you are actually working here. Say you were trying to spend 6 months a year here, very few people below retirement age would be able to do that as they need to work. Being able to show sufficient funds on entry would probably help, but again,its down to the guy who sees you o entry.

UK passport holders are a lot lower risk than many other countries, also if you can enter via the automatic passport gates then you might avoid even having to speak to an official, but it is something you need to be aware of.

Pollyana

I see on your other thread you have views from BritInParis - he is pretty much a expert on this type of thing, so take note of his views

AandP

Hi, and thanks for your reply. However I'm a little confused as I assumed that as we have to get a visa before we come that that was the authority to enable us to enter.

Also, I can't really see the sense in the authorities letting us buy a property and being let "live" in it as non residence when we are not allowed to live in Australia? I guess I need to know the difference between living there and being a visitor. As far as I can tell by that logic I must be a tourist in the UK now

As they give out 6 and 12 month visas how does anyone know if the person will live there or not? If I had any idea of what living there was!

AandP

Will do thanks,
Might need some sort of official advice too

BritInParis

A visa means you have been assessed by a case officer as meeting the requirements to enter Australia under certain conditions. The immigration official at the border can still deny you entry if you do not meet those conditions, for instance you applied for and were granted a visitor visa but your stated intention on arrival is to live and work. It's rare but something you should be aware.

Owning a property and living in it are two separate matters. Many Chinese and Russian investors own property in London, but they will still need a visa just to visit the UK, let alone live in it.

A case officer assesses eligibility, intention and risk. Do you have a good reason to stay in Australia for that length of time? Are you able to support yourself financially within the conditions of your visa? Do you have a good reason to return to your home country? If you can give good answers to these questions and provide evidence to support your claims then your visa will be granted and you won't have a problem. If you can't or your answer or evidence is vague or unconvincing then you will more difficulty.

As Pollyana mentioned you are of working age; you also appear to have no family ties to Australia. Both of those factors will count against you. You are British citizens and therefore generally considered low risk mentioned in your other thread that money wasn't an issue so I will assume you are independently wealthy. That will count in your favour. If you have family or property in the UK that you can provide evidence of then that will also count in your favour.

Remember that a case officer doesn't know you from Adam. Your reasons may appear obvious to you but that may not necessarily be true from their point of view. Pulaski mentioned in your other thread that other options for a holiday home were available in the Mediterranean and Florida that were closer and cheaper than Australia. Your case officer is likely to think the same thing so you will need to make a case why you would prefer Australia.

AandP

mmmm Once again many thanks.

BritInParis

Bottom line is that you have no absolute right to visit or live in any country other than your own. Doing what you wish to do is possible, and I think very much achievable, so long as you have the mindset that Australia, or anywhere else other than the UK, has no obligation to you whatsoever.

Dorothy

. A visa gives you the right to knock on the door. It's still up to the border agents to decide if they'll let you through the door. They don't have to if they feel that you are not what you say you are - tourists. Only Australian citizens have the right to enter Australia. Everyone else requires permission.

You are not a tourist in the UK, you are resident of the country of your citizenship.

They don't "give out" visas. A visa is applied for and granted if the applicant meets the criteria. A 6 or 12 month visa is usually granted for parents coming to stay with adult children. Or tourists who are taking sabbatical to drive around the country in a caravan. Or any other genuine tourist. Residency visas are granted for peoplewho want to live in Australia.

They let you buy a house, same as many foreign owners. As an investment. However owning property doesn't give a foreign owner the right to live in the property.

I'm not trying to be negative, but you do have to realise that at only 53 and 59 you're young to be retired. And with a plan to buy and live in a property it could look sus to the border agents on arrival.

rammygirl

My sister and her husband own a property in Florida. They go at least 3 times a year, sometimes 4 and he stays for a month or so, she goes back to UK as she still works. After the first two years of travelling out on tourist visas they were stopped by immigration and questioned for an hour in a room. Not pleasant. They were told that they would be allowed in this time but would be refused entry if they came again on a tourist visa. They had to apply for a different visa, provide all sorts of evidence and go for interviews in London. This visa lasted 10 years and allowed them to spend up to six months a year (rolling) in the USA and no more than 3 months at a time. It is up for renewal soon, luckily my sister still works as this was considered an important tie to the UK, they are apparently fussier with retirees.

As there are visas for retirees, albeit expensive ones who wish to retire to Australia, then you could be seen to be avoiding these and have the potential to overstay. Not saying this is your intent but they have to be fair to those who pay a lot of money to be here otherwise.

Having said that someone on one of the forums had their parents build a house on their land and spend a happy half and half life in UK and Aus until they found the travel too much. So it is possible, but they are getting more and more strict with many things and enforcing rules that used to be advisory.

Dorothy

That's what I was getting at. They're parents coming to visit their children, not young people (53 is young to be retired) looking at staying 6 months.

AandP

Once again many thanks Dorothy, I now realise that just having a visa would not guarantee entry upon arrival. However I would be interested to know the facts and any previous experience of people who may be in our situation.

Re tourists in our own country I was trying to point out that as we are now retired and you seem worried what we would do every day, " What will you do for 6 months here? Will you be touring around? Volunteering? Looking to do a bit of part time work to fill your hours? Surely living in a house in Brisbane for 6 months you'll need something to do." What we would do is tourist type things just as we do here or any other tourist might do here. I couldn't quite get my head around your distinction for us between living and being a tourist/visitor. As far as I can see the difference is that we would be returning home.

Can I ask do you have any evidence or facts re "A 6 or 12 month visa is usually granted for parents coming to stay with adult children. Or tourists who are taking sabbatical to drive around the country in a caravan."
As from looking on the homeaffairs.gov.au web page about the subclass 600 visa it states : Who would could get this visa,

To be granted this visa, you must:
meet health and character requirements
have enough money to support yourself during your stay in Australia
intend to do the activities in the Tourist stream.

There is no mention that you have to be a visiting parent in fact there is a completely separate section for visiting parents.

Under, What this visa lets you do:
This visa lets you:
have a holiday or visit family and friends in Australia
study in Australia for up to three months
work as a genuine unpaid volunteer, but only if an Australian resident would not otherwise be paid to do the work (you can be reimbursed for out-of-pocket expenses such as meals and accommodation)

So from the official site there is no mention of "tourists who are taking sabbatical to drive around the country in a caravan."

So once again can I ask do you have any evidence or facts? Do you know for fact that the information on the official visa site is misleading or incorrect? Or do they apply different rules to what is printed?

I'm sorry if this comes across in any way other than just information gathering but as I'm sure you can imagine it is very important to us to find out actual facts and evidence rather than opinions.

AandP

Hi, sorry missed this part.
On the firb.gov.au web page there is a section showing that foreign person can buy residential real estate but again no mention that they are not permitted to live in it. As this is crucial to what we would like to do can you show us any facts or evidence that we would not be permitted to live in the property and rent it out for the time we are not there?

Many thanks.

AandP

Thanks for this. This is the sort of info we need but would be even better if it were in the case of an Oz visa and situation.

Pollyana

I know this sounds petty, but its typical of Aus Immigration. In order to LIVE here you need a permanent residence visa or citizenship. Otherwise you would be owning a property and living in it as a visitor. If you say you are 'Living ' in it then the red flags go up as you don't have permission to 'live' in Australia.