spouse of scouse

It all seems to depend on whether the person/s moving from NZ has Australian PR or citizenship. If the people in the OP's story had PR, they probably wouldn't have an issue. But it appears as though they spent little time in Australia and have not built up the required years to be eligible for an Aus pension. It sounds as though people from New Zealand are now being treated exactly the same as those from any other foreign country which has a Social Security Agreement with Australia. They need to meet residence status and residence qualifying periods to be eligible for an Australian Age Pension.

It follows that, as the people in the OP's story don't appear to be eligible to receive an Australian Age Pension, they would need to rely on their NZ Age Pension (which seems to be called superannuation), if they want to live in Australia. I don't believe that NZ will cease their payment (they'd need to check this), but by the same token, they won't be permitted to 'double dip' by receiving a pension from each country, and Australia isn't going to take over the NZ government's pension obligations. This may (or may not) help to clarify things.

Social security entitlements for New Zealanders | Living in Australia | New Zealanders overseas | Australia | NZEmbassy.com

Social Security Agreement

Non-protected SCV holders can also access the social security benefits covered by the Australia New Zealand Social Security Agreement.

Old Age Pension

New Zealanders who are 65 or older and live in Australia may be eligible for both an Australian age pension and NZ superannuation, depending on the amount of their working life they spent in each country.

Australian age pensions are income and asset tested, so any income or assets a New Zealander has will affect the amount of Australian age pension payable. In addition, the rate of New Zealand Superannuation payable in Australia cannot exceed the amount of Australian Age Pension that would be payable if the New Zealander was entitled to receive an Australian Age Pension but was not entitled to receive New Zealand Superannuation. This means that where a New Zealander cannot receive the Australian Age Pension because their income and assets exceed the limits, that person cannot receive New Zealand Superannuation in Australia.

To qualify for a pension, a New Zealander must have been resident in either Australia or New Zealand for at least 10 years of their working life (between the ages of 20 and 65). To apply for a pension, a New Zealander must be able to provide proof of their identity (see 'Proof of Identity' section of the Centrelink website) and their Australian residence (eg tax records). For further information contact Centrelink.

From the Department of Social Services in Australia
https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-dep...sked-questions

Social Security Arrangements for People Moving Between Australia and New Zealand

This information is intended as a general guide only. If you think you may be entitled to a benefit you should lodge a claim.

Access to most Australian social security payments changed from 26 February 2001. After that date, only New Zealanders moving to Australia who hold a permanent resident visa or have Australian citizenship, and reside in Australia are able to apply for a full range of social security payments. New Zealanders who were in Australia on 26 February 2001 were not affected by the changed arrangements and there were some other limited exceptions. Centrelink is able to provide information on these exceptions.

New Zealanders who travel to Australia without obtaining a permanent resident visa, ie on a Special Category Visa can access certain social security payments covered by the Social Security Agreement between Australia and New Zealand.

What Payments Does the Agreement cover?

For Australia, the Agreement covers:
•Age Pension

What Are the Main Features of the Agreement?

The Agreement helps people living in Australia and New Zealand, who have spent part of their working life in the other country, to claim a (part) pension from both countries.

Australian legislation generally requires a person to have a minimum of 10 years Australian residence before they can claim an age pension or disability support pension (this rule changes if the person becomes disabled after they take up permanent residence in Australia). It also requires the person to be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day the claim for pension is lodged.

The Agreement helps people access specified Australian payments by
•allowing special category visa holders (SCV) to claim an Australian pension
•counting periods of working age residence in New Zealand (between 20 and 65) towards Australia's residency requirements for age and disability support pension
•allowing continued payment (subject to ongoing qualification) of these benefits in New Zealand and
•allowing former Australian residents now living in New Zealand to claim an Australian pension

Note: To use the Agreement to claim an Australian pension while residing in New Zealand, a person must have actually resided in Australia between 20 and 65 years of age for a minimum of 12 months (with 5 years after the age of 50).

Centrelink has information on residency requirements for payments covered by the Agreement.

Techno Freak

Thanks all, it is indeed very confusing, (at least the trying to work out the amount of Australian pension anyway, regardless of eligibility).

The only thing that appears cut and dry is that IF they are eligible for Australian pension, and the means test results make that pension little or nothing, then the NZ pension will effectively cease too. There are a few websites warning NZ pensioners of this, as per Spouse of Scouse post above, "This means that where a New Zealander cannot receive the Australian Age Pension because their income and assets exceed the limits, that person cannot receive New Zealand Superannuation in Australia."

The first thing is to see if they can get Australian PR. If they can't achieve that, then the rest is a moot point. They became NZ citizens after 2001 so I believe the only avenue they would have for PR in Australia would be to try for an RRV base don their original lapsed Australian PR's.

If that is successful, then we'll look deeper at the pension issue.

If they can't get PR then they could live here no problem as an NZ citizen but would not be entitled to apply for Australian pension, and the NZ pension would cease after being out of NZ for 6 months.

Cheers.

Pollyana

Did you see my post above? I honestly think you need a company like that to take it on. If Go Matilda Tax and Accounting Solutions for Individuals and Businesses in UK and Australia don't cover NZ I'm sure they know a company that will, but they are certainly experts at dealing with Aus and the UK.

Techno Freak

Yes, thanks Pollyana. I'll be contacting Go Matilda soon. When we moved over here I did our PR (136) visa applications myself, but I wouldn't go near the RRV ones now. Reading around them it's just too complicated and seems to be a degree of discretion involved on the assessors part. An area where a skilled agent would know what to/and not to submit for the best chance of a favorable outcome.

Cheers.

Pollyana

Good luck

Techno Freak

Thought I'd post up my latest findings, in-case anyone else ends up with a similar situation and looking for information.

After a few solid days of Googling, I'd pretty much concluded that:-

1 - They'd need to apply for an RRV PR visa first.

2 - Then, apply for the Aged pension (which requires 10 years residency in Australia, with a continuous period of 5 years amongst that and between the ages of 20-65).

3 - Then, if successful, the amount of pension would be means tested.

What hadn't clicked was that I was assuming all along that as they became NZ citizens after 2001 they are not "protected" SCV visa holders, so I had miss-read the International Social Security Agreement fact sheets and assumed the agreement would not apply.

Since then, I have re-read the fact sheet and found the actual full agreement and it would seem that NZ citizens, (both pre and post, i.e. protected and none-protected SCV holders) would be eligible to claim the Aged Pension via the International Agreement.

From this link:-

Social security entitlements for New Zealanders | Living in Australia | New Zealanders overseas | Australia | NZEmbassy.com

"Non-protected SCV holders can also access the social security benefits covered by the Australia New Zealand Social Security Agreement."

The full agreement is here:-

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-dep...nd-new-zealand

To qualify under the agreement, "To qualify for a pension, a New Zealander must have been resident in either Australia or New Zealand for at least 10 years of their working life (between the ages of 20 and 65)."

Which they do.

There is no mention of also requiring current Australian PR.

The actual agreement does outline that any benefit would be the assessed Australian amount though, and that the New Zealand pension payment would not be included as assessed income, but cannot be greater than the outcome of the assessment.

So, it is looking like they could move here as New Zealanders, and by way of the agreement, claim an Australian Aged Pension (as they do meet the 10 year residence of both countries), albeit at a reduced rate form the current NZ pension that they receive.

I'll post up further if I dig anything else up.

Cheers.

teza

Applying for RRV after 10+ years away? Have they visited Australia during that absence and if so, on what visa? As tourist visa may have complicated things further?

Techno Freak

They've been over almost every year for a month or so at a time, but they would have entered on their NZ passports, and as such, would have got an SCV visa automatically as they entered.

As I say though, it seems as though they wouldn't need the Australian PR anyway as they are eligible to apply for an Australian Aged Pension based on their NZ SCV status via the International Social Security Agreement between Australia and New Zealand, and their cumulative total of over ten years residence in Australia and New Zealand.

All I need to work out now, assuming they were assessed as eligible, is what the pension payment amount would be once the asset and income test is applied to it so they can make a decision as to whether they can afford to live here with the reduced pension amount.

Cheers.