skilled migration- work experience
Feb 10th 2001, 3:52 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
As an International student who currently studying for his Ph.d (research) in an
Australian University under full scholarship (Fees and living allowance)can I assess my
Masters degree and claim my research as a work experience?
Australian University under full scholarship (Fees and living allowance)can I assess my
Masters degree and claim my research as a work experience?
Feb 10th 2001, 5:49 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
As an International student who currently studying for his Ph.d
> (research) in an Australian University under full scholarship (Fees and living
> allowance)can I assess my Masters degree and claim my research as a work experience?
No. But there is no need for that. If you complete at least one year full time study
leading to a degree, diploma or trade qualification in Australia then you do not have to
meet the recent work experience requirement. Be warned: this concession is available only
for six months and the clock starts ticking form the date you were notified of the result
leading to an award. Cheers,
--
Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
(replace AT with @)
> (research) in an Australian University under full scholarship (Fees and living
> allowance)can I assess my Masters degree and claim my research as a work experience?
No. But there is no need for that. If you complete at least one year full time study
leading to a degree, diploma or trade qualification in Australia then you do not have to
meet the recent work experience requirement. Be warned: this concession is available only
for six months and the clock starts ticking form the date you were notified of the result
leading to an award. Cheers,
--
Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
(replace AT with @)
Feb 10th 2001, 12:40 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
The research will be completed aprox. in mid 2002, results would not be Available till the
end of 2002. Therefore the application will have to be lodged sometimes towards the end of
2002 - that is why I am checking this option! But now let me ask you why not? The research
is conducted under full Scholarship and will be published (if successful, under the
University name - could we call them the employer? fees and living allowance is paid by
the institution which offer this particular scholarship), having a master degree qualify
me as an academic, maybe? Doing a research that ultimately lead to PhD but also result in
publication of my research. Would it be wrong to call it an employment? Just wondering!
Let me give you some occupation that can fit into this category: Biochemist, Economist,
Historian, Marine biologist etc. There are a large number of academics that could not
survive in the academic world without Grants, scholarship etc. wouldn’t you call them
employed? I am a migration agent and I did raise this question as a matter of interest.
The PAM's try to deal with this question, but I could not make a lot of sense out of it,
which in a way convince me that I may have a case.
PAM Academic occupations
6.4.1 Given the nature of academic employment, the outright exclusion of living allowance
and scholarship recipients from being “remuneration� is problematic for academics for
a number of reasons:
• The nature of progression from student to academic. Such progression tends to be gradual
and sometimes unclear as study decreases and tutoring, research and lecturing employment
grows, sometimes with “relapses�. Often it is hard to tell if most of the person’s tasks
are related to their study or their work.
• The various ways visiting academics (e.g. visa 419 holders) are paid. These include
scholarships and living allowances similar to those received by students, especially the
more senior postgraduate students. Some scholarships and living allowances are tax free
and equivalent to taxable incomes received by employed persons.
• The various arrangements by which academics get experience at other institutions e.g.
through unpaid leave from their home institution while the host institution pays a living
allowance or fellowship. Their job at their home institution may be held while they are
visiting elsewhere.
6.5.2 Given these circumstances it is reasonable for visiting academics to have been
employed in the relevant (skilled) occupation
(e.g. researcher), provided they otherwise have a favourable skills assessment. (Note,
however, that “university lecturer� and “tutor� are not gazetted as skilled
occupations.)
1). I will be interested to know if someone did lodge a similar application?
2). I would like to hear other people thoughts about this issue?
I do have a prospective client, but I have to admit that I am not 100% convinced that
I am right.
Cheers YS
>
> > As an International student who currently studying for his Ph.d (research) in an
> > Australian University under full scholarship (Fees and living allowance)can I assess
> > my Masters degree and claim my research as a work experience?
>
> No. But there is no need for that. If you complete at least one year full time study
> leading to a degree, diploma or trade qualification in Australia then you do not have to
> meet the recent work experience requirement. Be warned: this concession is available
> only for six
months
> and the clock starts ticking form the date you were notified of the result leading to an
> award. Cheers,
>
> --
> Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
> (replace AT with @)
end of 2002. Therefore the application will have to be lodged sometimes towards the end of
2002 - that is why I am checking this option! But now let me ask you why not? The research
is conducted under full Scholarship and will be published (if successful, under the
University name - could we call them the employer? fees and living allowance is paid by
the institution which offer this particular scholarship), having a master degree qualify
me as an academic, maybe? Doing a research that ultimately lead to PhD but also result in
publication of my research. Would it be wrong to call it an employment? Just wondering!
Let me give you some occupation that can fit into this category: Biochemist, Economist,
Historian, Marine biologist etc. There are a large number of academics that could not
survive in the academic world without Grants, scholarship etc. wouldn’t you call them
employed? I am a migration agent and I did raise this question as a matter of interest.
The PAM's try to deal with this question, but I could not make a lot of sense out of it,
which in a way convince me that I may have a case.
PAM Academic occupations
6.4.1 Given the nature of academic employment, the outright exclusion of living allowance
and scholarship recipients from being “remuneration� is problematic for academics for
a number of reasons:
• The nature of progression from student to academic. Such progression tends to be gradual
and sometimes unclear as study decreases and tutoring, research and lecturing employment
grows, sometimes with “relapses�. Often it is hard to tell if most of the person’s tasks
are related to their study or their work.
• The various ways visiting academics (e.g. visa 419 holders) are paid. These include
scholarships and living allowances similar to those received by students, especially the
more senior postgraduate students. Some scholarships and living allowances are tax free
and equivalent to taxable incomes received by employed persons.
• The various arrangements by which academics get experience at other institutions e.g.
through unpaid leave from their home institution while the host institution pays a living
allowance or fellowship. Their job at their home institution may be held while they are
visiting elsewhere.
6.5.2 Given these circumstances it is reasonable for visiting academics to have been
employed in the relevant (skilled) occupation
(e.g. researcher), provided they otherwise have a favourable skills assessment. (Note,
however, that “university lecturer� and “tutor� are not gazetted as skilled
occupations.)
1). I will be interested to know if someone did lodge a similar application?
2). I would like to hear other people thoughts about this issue?
I do have a prospective client, but I have to admit that I am not 100% convinced that
I am right.
Cheers YS
>
> > As an International student who currently studying for his Ph.d (research) in an
> > Australian University under full scholarship (Fees and living allowance)can I assess
> > my Masters degree and claim my research as a work experience?
>
> No. But there is no need for that. If you complete at least one year full time study
> leading to a degree, diploma or trade qualification in Australia then you do not have to
> meet the recent work experience requirement. Be warned: this concession is available
> only for six
months
> and the clock starts ticking form the date you were notified of the result leading to an
> award. Cheers,
>
> --
> Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
> (replace AT with @)
Feb 10th 2001, 3:20 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
I would point out that while what Zoltan says is correct regarding DIMA's basic
requirements for General Skills migration, the following provisos apply:
1. You can't get any points for work experience if you take advantage of this.
2. More importantly, if the assessing authority for your nominated occupation requires
work experience in order to get a skills assessment, then you still need the
experience they require, irrespective of the DIMA concession.
Jeremy
>
>> As an International student who currently studying for his Ph.d (research) in an
>> Australian University under full scholarship (Fees and living allowance)can I assess my
>> Masters degree and claim my research as a work experience?
>
>No. But there is no need for that. If you complete at least one year full time study
>leading to a degree, diploma or trade qualification in Australia then you do not have to
>meet the recent work experience requirement. Be warned: this concession is available only
>for six months and the clock starts ticking form the date you were notified of the result
>leading to an award. Cheers,
>
>--
>Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
>(replace AT with @)
requirements for General Skills migration, the following provisos apply:
1. You can't get any points for work experience if you take advantage of this.
2. More importantly, if the assessing authority for your nominated occupation requires
work experience in order to get a skills assessment, then you still need the
experience they require, irrespective of the DIMA concession.
Jeremy
>
>> As an International student who currently studying for his Ph.d (research) in an
>> Australian University under full scholarship (Fees and living allowance)can I assess my
>> Masters degree and claim my research as a work experience?
>
>No. But there is no need for that. If you complete at least one year full time study
>leading to a degree, diploma or trade qualification in Australia then you do not have to
>meet the recent work experience requirement. Be warned: this concession is available only
>for six months and the clock starts ticking form the date you were notified of the result
>leading to an award. Cheers,
>
>--
>Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
>(replace AT with @)
Feb 11th 2001, 8:06 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
> I am a migration agent and I did raise this question as a matter of interest.
If you are an agent then my advise is a bit different: Yes, it is a legally interesting
and challenging matter. Try it. And do not forget to tell us about the outcome.
If you were my client then I would like to advise you that this is a gray area. Your
application is likely to be rejected. Wait until you get to the right position to apply.
> The PAM's try to deal with this question, but I could not make a lot of sense out of it,
> which in a way convince me that I may have a case.
If you can not make a sense out of it, then the departamental officer can not make it
either. He then will ring a senior officer. So did I and his reply was: No. The whole
quotation from the PAM sounds like a legal argument and not like a clear explanation of
the law for the case officer.
> 6.4.1 Given the nature of academic employment, the outright exclusion of living
> allowance and scholarship recipients from being “remuneration� is problematic for
> academics for a number of reasons:
From this subsection I understand that the general policy is "outright exclusion". However
there are some problematic cases, like this:
> 6.4.2 Given these circumstances it is reasonable for visiting academics to have been
> employed in the relevant (skilled) occupation
> (e.g. researcher), provided they otherwise have a favourable skills assessment. (Note,
> however, that “university lecturer� and “tutor� are not gazetted as skilled
> occupations.)
It means for me that if the applicant is seeking to migrate as an academic then his
scholarship period may be considered as employment
(ie. not outright excluded). But then there is an other catch he can not avoid: his
academic profession not listed as skilled occupation.
> I do have a prospective client, but I have to admit that I am not 100% convinced that I
> am right.
Who can be 100% right in a migration legislation matter? Cheers,
--
Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
(replace AT with @)
If you are an agent then my advise is a bit different: Yes, it is a legally interesting
and challenging matter. Try it. And do not forget to tell us about the outcome.
If you were my client then I would like to advise you that this is a gray area. Your
application is likely to be rejected. Wait until you get to the right position to apply.
> The PAM's try to deal with this question, but I could not make a lot of sense out of it,
> which in a way convince me that I may have a case.
If you can not make a sense out of it, then the departamental officer can not make it
either. He then will ring a senior officer. So did I and his reply was: No. The whole
quotation from the PAM sounds like a legal argument and not like a clear explanation of
the law for the case officer.
> 6.4.1 Given the nature of academic employment, the outright exclusion of living
> allowance and scholarship recipients from being “remuneration� is problematic for
> academics for a number of reasons:
From this subsection I understand that the general policy is "outright exclusion". However
there are some problematic cases, like this:
> 6.4.2 Given these circumstances it is reasonable for visiting academics to have been
> employed in the relevant (skilled) occupation
> (e.g. researcher), provided they otherwise have a favourable skills assessment. (Note,
> however, that “university lecturer� and “tutor� are not gazetted as skilled
> occupations.)
It means for me that if the applicant is seeking to migrate as an academic then his
scholarship period may be considered as employment
(ie. not outright excluded). But then there is an other catch he can not avoid: his
academic profession not listed as skilled occupation.
> I do have a prospective client, but I have to admit that I am not 100% convinced that I
> am right.
Who can be 100% right in a migration legislation matter? Cheers,
--
Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
(replace AT with @)
Feb 12th 2001, 1:57 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks Zoltan,
I have to agree with you but I am tempted. Just for a matter of interest I will give
you my tempted application: Apply under Historian to VETASSESS (50 points), the client
research is in the same field. Claim 5 points for work experience and get ....... I
do plan to contact DIMA Canberra and press my claims - The scholarship is advertised by
the institution to the general public in my client home country! my client applied and
..... My client is fully aware of the situation. We will not apply unless I can recieve a
clear indication from DIMA to go ahead. I thought that some of you may find it
interesting and hope that some of the people on this newsgroup will be brave enough to
raise similar matters as a matter of interest and provide more depth to this group.
Cheers YS
> > I am a migration agent and I did raise this question as a matter of interest.
>
> If you are an agent then my advise is a bit different: Yes, it is a legally interesting
> and challenging matter. Try it. And do not forget to tell us about the outcome.
>
> If you were my client then I would like to advise you that this is a gray area. Your
> application is likely to be rejected. Wait until you get to the right position to apply.
>
> > The PAM's try to deal with this question, but I could not make a lot of sense out of
> > it, which in a way convince me that I may have a case.
>
> If you can not make a sense out of it, then the departamental officer can not make it
> either. He then will ring a senior officer. So did I and his reply was: No. The whole
> quotation from the PAM sounds like a legal argument and not like a clear explanation of
> the law for the case officer.
>
> > 6.4.1 Given the nature of academic employment, the outright exclusion of living
> > allowance and scholarship recipients from being "remuneration" is problematic for
> > academics for a number of reasons:
>
> From this subsection I understand that the general policy is "outright exclusion".
> However there are some problematic cases, like this:
>
> > 6.4.2 Given these circumstances it is reasonable for visiting academics to have been
> > employed in the relevant (skilled) occupation
> > (e.g. researcher), provided they otherwise have a favourable skills assessment. (Note,
> > however, that "university lecturer" and "tutor" are not gazetted as skilled
> > occupations.)
>
> It means for me that if the applicant is seeking to migrate as an academic then his
> scholarship period may be considered as employment
> (ie. not outright excluded). But then there is an other catch he can not avoid: his
> academic profession not listed as skilled occupation.
>
> > I do have a prospective client, but I have to admit that I am not 100% convinced that
> > I am right.
>
> Who can be 100% right in a migration legislation matter? Cheers,
> --
> Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
> (replace AT with @)
I have to agree with you but I am tempted.
Just for a matter of interest I will giveyou my tempted application: Apply under Historian to VETASSESS (50 points), the client
research is in the same field
. Claim 5 points for work experience and get ....... Ido plan to contact DIMA Canberra and press my claims - The scholarship is advertised by
the institution to the general public in my client home country! my client applied and
..... My client is fully aware of the situation. We will not apply unless I can recieve a
clear indication from DIMA to go ahead.
I thought that some of you may find itinteresting and hope that some of the people on this newsgroup will be brave enough to
raise similar matters as a matter of interest and provide more depth to this group.
Cheers YS
> > I am a migration agent and I did raise this question as a matter of interest.
>
> If you are an agent then my advise is a bit different: Yes, it is a legally interesting
> and challenging matter. Try it. And do not forget to tell us about the outcome.
>
> If you were my client then I would like to advise you that this is a gray area. Your
> application is likely to be rejected. Wait until you get to the right position to apply.
>
> > The PAM's try to deal with this question, but I could not make a lot of sense out of
> > it, which in a way convince me that I may have a case.
>
> If you can not make a sense out of it, then the departamental officer can not make it
> either. He then will ring a senior officer. So did I and his reply was: No. The whole
> quotation from the PAM sounds like a legal argument and not like a clear explanation of
> the law for the case officer.
>
> > 6.4.1 Given the nature of academic employment, the outright exclusion of living
> > allowance and scholarship recipients from being "remuneration" is problematic for
> > academics for a number of reasons:
>
> From this subsection I understand that the general policy is "outright exclusion".
> However there are some problematic cases, like this:
>
> > 6.4.2 Given these circumstances it is reasonable for visiting academics to have been
> > employed in the relevant (skilled) occupation
> > (e.g. researcher), provided they otherwise have a favourable skills assessment. (Note,
> > however, that "university lecturer" and "tutor" are not gazetted as skilled
> > occupations.)
>
> It means for me that if the applicant is seeking to migrate as an academic then his
> scholarship period may be considered as employment
> (ie. not outright excluded). But then there is an other catch he can not avoid: his
> academic profession not listed as skilled occupation.
>
> > I do have a prospective client, but I have to admit that I am not 100% convinced that
> > I am right.
>
> Who can be 100% right in a migration legislation matter? Cheers,
> --
> Zoltan BERTOK Migration Agent 78607 Sydney (02) 9825 1404 e-mail: zoltanATbertok.com
> (replace AT with @)
