Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Australia / Immigration, Visas & Citizenship (Australia)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old Jul 31st 2007, 9:57 pm   #1
Ping pong PoM
 
alipally's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,525
alipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond repute
Default New visa English requirements-Question!

As a British Citizen, do we have to take an english language test to prove proficiency after sept 1st???
Seems mad, but I'll do it if I have to!

Ali x
alipally is offline  
Sponsored Links
Old Jul 31st 2007, 10:05 pm   #2
Reg. Migration Agent
Premium Member
 
George Lombard's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Inner Western suburbs of Sydney
Posts: 4,476
George Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge Lombard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alipally View Post
As a British Citizen, do we have to take an english language test to prove proficiency after sept 1st???
Seems mad, but I'll do it if I have to!

Ali x
Hi Ali,

See http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/gener...nges/index.htm - it's really important that you read all this since the rules are changing on 1 September, and some UK citizenswill need to do the IELTS test to reach 25 points for English - might include you.

Cheers,

George Lombard
__________________
Migration Agent Registration Number 9601056
george[at]austimmigration[dot]com[dot]au
www.austimmigration.com.au
Fellow of the Migration Institute of Australia
George Lombard is offline  
Old Jul 31st 2007, 10:11 pm   #3
Ping pong PoM
 
alipally's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,525
alipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

I've read it all.... but I still am not sure, what criteria would mean that I had to take the test?
I only speak English (oh and french.... badly!)

It says UK passport holders are exempt, but then goes on to say that if I wanted higher profeciency, I'd need to take the test..... As it goes we could drop 10 points easily (total is 140 with the 25 for English) So should I just leave it out and claim 15 points... (stupid question the answer is, of course, yes!)

Ali x
alipally is offline  
Old Jul 31st 2007, 11:26 pm   #4
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 12
Kim Hunter will become famous soon enoughKim Hunter will become famous soon enough
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

Hi Ali,

Anyone who wants to claim 25 points for proficient English post 1 September will HAVE to score 7 on each of the 4 bands of IELTS, REGARDLESS of whether they are from an English speaking country, REGARDLESS of whether they hold a passport from an English speaking country.

So the answer is 'yes' even though you speak English, hold UK passport, you MUST sit an IELTS and score at least 7 on all bands.

Best of luck & good morning from Sydney!

Mrs Kim Hunter
Immigration Lawyer & Migration Agent 533920
www.migrationprofessionals.com.au
Kim Hunter is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 4:18 pm   #5
NO ADDED SUGAR
 
I_Will_Freckle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Center Parcs, WA
Posts: 1,322
I_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

I was so in disbelief at this new policy that I wrote to the policy department and here is their reply:

As background information, applicants who hold a passport from the
United Kingdom, Canada, New Zealand, the United States of America and
the Republic of Ireland are exempt from sitting an International English
Language Testing System (IELTS) test to demonstrate that they meet the
English language threshold (competent English). However, all applicants
seeking to demonstrate that they have the higher level of proficient
English must provide an IELTS result demonstrating their level of
English.

This rationale behind this requirement is the fact that not all citizens
of the above mentioned countries applying for skilled migration have
proficient English. Therefore proficient English is rewarded with extra
points.

As a former EFL teacher, I am totally bemused by this policy. The IELTS exams were never designed to test native speakers – they are designed to demonstrate how closely an applicant’s English is to that of a native speaker. So it’s a bit like comparing a fish with a fish…

The policy is also flawed. It is not a requirement of holding a British passport to have “competent” English. I know of people that can barely string a sentence together in English but they qualify for a UK passport. Doesn’t seem fair that they would get points automatically for their English “ability”.

Additionally, some native speakers may not do well in the exam and may not qualify for the full 25 points even though their communication skills are at least “proficient”. Possible reasons for this are any kind of literacy problem, or more likely “exam fright”. The latter is more common that you might think and can be a real problem for some people.

Saying all that, the exams should not present a problem for the majority of native speakers – they should be a breeze in fact. You can learn more about them here. I would just be pissed off at the additional costs and stress involved in having to prove that I was a native speaker.
__________________
I only come here for the Groundhog Day experience.
I_Will_Freckle is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 4:29 pm   #6
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 113
brisbanebound is just really nicebrisbanebound is just really nicebrisbanebound is just really nicebrisbanebound is just really nicebrisbanebound is just really nicebrisbanebound is just really nicebrisbanebound is just really nicebrisbanebound is just really nicebrisbanebound is just really nice
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

hi,
I sat the IELTS exam last month, in order to gain the extra points for September.I am Irish, and the examiner commented on how strange it was having to test a native speaker.I gained the score of 7, that is required, and I found it quite easy, if not a long day.
brisbanebound is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 4:32 pm   #7
MODL Pommie
 
sssstew's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane QLD
Posts: 78
sssstew is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

yeah same here, sat the test a few months ago just incase... i was the only originally english person there.. felt weird!
sssstew is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 5:07 pm   #8
Ping pong PoM
 
alipally's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,525
alipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond reputealipally has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

Well, as I say, if we get passed through TRA we won't need to have these extra points, but they're handy if you're lacking in other areas.

It's certainly opened my eyes and hopefully informed some who were close to the threshold for PR but need a few extra points for independent status.

Ali
alipally is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 5:40 pm   #9
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,071
louie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond reputelouie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Will_Freckle View Post
I would just be pissed off at the additional costs and stress involved in having to prove that I was a native speaker.
But you are not having to prove you are a native speaker are you? You have 15 points for being a native speaker. This policy is trying to identify who has "proficient English" and thus who should be awarded a further 10 for being so. I don't know enough about IELTS to know if that is an appropriate way to determine whether anyone is proficient in English, but I am guessing there is no other worldwide system that would be accessible to all, so maybe it is just the best they can do.

However, it only takes 10 minutes wandering along an average English high street, reading the signs and listening to the native's conversation, to know that the average standard is (at least in my view) less than proficient (and in many cases, barely competent). My experience of Australia is much the same, but surely it's no bad thing to try and improve upon that by favouring immigrants who can communicate well in their new country?
louie is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 5:58 pm   #10
NO ADDED SUGAR
 
I_Will_Freckle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Center Parcs, WA
Posts: 1,322
I_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

The 15 points are for "competent" English, which is a substantially lower standard than a native has.

I agree that it is a postive thing to encourage people who are fluent in the native tongue but think that this is a bad way to go about it.
__________________
I only come here for the Groundhog Day experience.
I_Will_Freckle is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 7:46 pm   #11
BE Enthusiast
 
jenny79's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: malta
Posts: 306
jenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nice
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

at least it's IELTS. for someone like me to claim community language (5 pts, in my case maltese which is my native language), i have to sit for a NAATI test which is waaaayyyy more difficult than IELTS.
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
jenny79 is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 7:49 pm   #12
BE Enthusiast
 
jenny79's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: malta
Posts: 306
jenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nicejenny79 is just really nice
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Will_Freckle View Post
The policy is also flawed. It is not a requirement of holding a British passport to have “competent” English. I know of people that can barely string a sentence together in English but they qualify for a UK passport. Doesn’t seem fair that they would get points automatically for their English “ability”.
from what i read on another forum, so far it always seemed that if applicants hold a passport to an english speaking country, but were born in a non-english speaking country, were asked to sit for IELTS.
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
jenny79 is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 7:56 pm   #13
NO ADDED SUGAR
 
I_Will_Freckle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Center Parcs, WA
Posts: 1,322
I_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenny79 View Post
from what i read on another forum, so far it always seemed that if applicants hold a passport to an english speaking country, but were born in a non-english speaking country, were asked to sit for IELTS.
That seems to be changing as of 1st September although it seems more sensible to me.
__________________
I only come here for the Groundhog Day experience.
I_Will_Freckle is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 8:08 pm   #14
BE Enthusiast
 
cheshiremark's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 403
cheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nicecheshiremark is just really nice
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

I've just been reading up on the IELTS. Am I right in thinking that we just need to do the General Test as opposed to the Academic Test?
cheshiremark is offline  
Old Aug 2nd 2007, 8:14 pm   #15
NO ADDED SUGAR
 
I_Will_Freckle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Center Parcs, WA
Posts: 1,322
I_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to beholdI_Will_Freckle is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: New visa English requirements-Question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheshiremark View Post
I've just been reading up on the IELTS. Am I right in thinking that we just need to do the General Test as opposed to the Academic Test?
Yes, seems so.
__________________
I only come here for the Groundhog Day experience.
I_Will_Freckle is offline  
Closed Thread

Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Australia / Immigration, Visas & Citizenship (Australia)

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

All times are GMT. The time now is 2:22 pm.


Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1999-2010 BritishExpats.com