Experience and degree question for Australia points test
Jan 11th 2017, 11:37 am
#1
Sidecar Falcon
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,504
Experience and degree question for Australia points test
My partner and I are currently weighing up our options before we start applying for a potential new adventure in another country however I have a few questions regarding the points test.
1. Both early-mid 30's.
2. Both degree educated.
3. Mixed nationality but have been together for 8 years.
4. Both work in jobs that are included on the CSOL.
I have taken the points test this morning for the first time in just under a year and have scored 80. That would be assuming that I passed IELTS with a 'superior English' level score. My partner would need to take IELTS for Australia anyway so I have no objection to doing it as well.
The problem is that I attended one of those Working International Expo's last year and was told there that Australia would only count my work experience attained from after I graduated.
I started working in IT full-time in 2008 off the back of vendor certifications and only earned my degree in CompSci last year so even though I was technically qualified (I have worked in both the UK and Canada off the back of those qualifications) I wasn't academically qualified in that field.
Firstly, is this rule true or still true? Because I can't find anything on the border.gov.au site or points test FAQ mentioning that.
Secondly, does that still apply even if you are trade qualified? I have noticed that 10 points are awarded for "an award or qualification recognised by the assessing authority in the assessment of the skilled occupation" which could hypothetically mean that I use that accreditation on the application instead and reduce my points score to 75.
Finally, how are Chef's assessed? I know that in Australia this comes under the TRA. My partner works as a Sous Chef now but her degree was in a completely unrelated subject and other than food hygiene and team management courses etc, her training as a Chef has mostly been hands-on.
TIA
1. Both early-mid 30's.
2. Both degree educated.
3. Mixed nationality but have been together for 8 years.
4. Both work in jobs that are included on the CSOL.
I have taken the points test this morning for the first time in just under a year and have scored 80. That would be assuming that I passed IELTS with a 'superior English' level score. My partner would need to take IELTS for Australia anyway so I have no objection to doing it as well.
The problem is that I attended one of those Working International Expo's last year and was told there that Australia would only count my work experience attained from after I graduated.
I started working in IT full-time in 2008 off the back of vendor certifications and only earned my degree in CompSci last year so even though I was technically qualified (I have worked in both the UK and Canada off the back of those qualifications) I wasn't academically qualified in that field.
Firstly, is this rule true or still true? Because I can't find anything on the border.gov.au site or points test FAQ mentioning that.
Secondly, does that still apply even if you are trade qualified? I have noticed that 10 points are awarded for "an award or qualification recognised by the assessing authority in the assessment of the skilled occupation" which could hypothetically mean that I use that accreditation on the application instead and reduce my points score to 75.
Finally, how are Chef's assessed? I know that in Australia this comes under the TRA. My partner works as a Sous Chef now but her degree was in a completely unrelated subject and other than food hygiene and team management courses etc, her training as a Chef has mostly been hands-on.
TIA
Jan 11th 2017, 3:09 pm
#2
Sidecar Falcon
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,504
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
In fact, don't worry about this. I think I've managed to get the bottom of most of it myself.
P5 of this document from the ACS suggests that what the agent said to me last year was the truth and unfortunately the vendor certifications that I have are ineligible for ACS assessment.
https://more.acs.org.au/__data/asset...Applicants.pdf
Ah well, it's always good to know where you stand on these things at least anyway.
P5 of this document from the ACS suggests that what the agent said to me last year was the truth and unfortunately the vendor certifications that I have are ineligible for ACS assessment.
https://more.acs.org.au/__data/asset...Applicants.pdf
Ah well, it's always good to know where you stand on these things at least anyway.
Jan 11th 2017, 11:17 pm
#3
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
In fact, don't worry about this. I think I've managed to get the bottom of most of it myself.
P5 of this document from the ACS suggests that what the agent said to me last year was the truth and unfortunately the vendor certifications that I have are ineligible for ACS assessment.
https://more.acs.org.au/__data/asset...Applicants.pdf
Ah well, it's always good to know where you stand on these things at least anyway.
P5 of this document from the ACS suggests that what the agent said to me last year was the truth and unfortunately the vendor certifications that I have are ineligible for ACS assessment.
https://more.acs.org.au/__data/asset...Applicants.pdf
Ah well, it's always good to know where you stand on these things at least anyway.
Jan 12th 2017, 10:05 am
#4
Sidecar Falcon
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,504
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
The Chef assessments with the TRA seem like a different kettle of fish entirely and confused the hell out of me tbh but my partner isn't yet eligible anyway due to only 2 years of work experience.
Jan 14th 2017, 5:32 am
#5
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Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,853
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
No apologies necessary. IT is a bit of a funny one and every country seems to handle it differently. In the case of the ACS, they seem to accept certifications that are considered equivalent to a Australian diploma however their selection process is a little off. It includes some certifications and not others even though some of the excluded ones are of a higher level and is limited only to Cisco and Microsoft.
The Chef assessments with the TRA seem like a different kettle of fish entirely and confused the hell out of me tbh but my partner isn't yet eligible anyway due to only 2 years of work experience.
The Chef assessments with the TRA seem like a different kettle of fish entirely and confused the hell out of me tbh but my partner isn't yet eligible anyway due to only 2 years of work experience.
Jan 14th 2017, 11:38 am
#6
Sidecar Falcon
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,504
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
Taking time out of the equation that I have spent moving between places and in between contracts etc, my full time experience is at least 6-7 out of the last 10 years.
Jan 14th 2017, 10:33 pm
#7
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Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,853
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
Looking back at your posts, you have a degree now, achieved after your experience and ACS will deem skills met when you have the mix of these. Where the experience is before the qualification, then you are deemed skilled from the date of the qualification (if both are satisfactory). So you would then only be looking to meet the points total. If you submit the degree for assessment, then if it meets requirements you can claim points for this. Without experience points though, you would be looking to get points from IELTS.
From page 4 here - https://more.acs.org.au/__data/asset...Applicants.pdf
If your work experience is completed before the completion date of your qualification, the Skill Level Requirement Met Date will be determined on the earliest date that BOTH the relevant work experience and the qualifications are completed
Jan 15th 2017, 4:16 pm
#8
Sidecar Falcon
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,504
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
ACS summary criteria here - https://more.acs.org.au/__data/asset...teria-2014.pdf
Looking back at your posts, you have a degree now, achieved after your experience and ACS will deem skills met when you have the mix of these. Where the experience is before the qualification, then you are deemed skilled from the date of the qualification (if both are satisfactory). So you would then only be looking to meet the points total. If you submit the degree for assessment, then if it meets requirements you can claim points for this. Without experience points though, you would be looking to get points from IELTS.
From page 4 here - https://more.acs.org.au/__data/asset...Applicants.pdf
Looking back at your posts, you have a degree now, achieved after your experience and ACS will deem skills met when you have the mix of these. Where the experience is before the qualification, then you are deemed skilled from the date of the qualification (if both are satisfactory). So you would then only be looking to meet the points total. If you submit the degree for assessment, then if it meets requirements you can claim points for this. Without experience points though, you would be looking to get points from IELTS.
From page 4 here - https://more.acs.org.au/__data/asset...Applicants.pdf
If your work experience is completed before the completion date of your qualification, the Skill Level Requirement Met Date will be determined on the earliest date that BOTH the relevant work experience and the qualifications are completed
I have no problem with taking IELTS since my OH would need to take it for Australia anyway due to her nationality.
Jan 16th 2017, 1:25 am
#9
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
Thanks. Tbh, this is all a bit confusing and looking through that PDF didn't really help to clarify things any further.
So does that mean that I can only claim for work experience accrued after receiving my degree or that I can claim points for work experience from before my degree was conferred?
I have no problem with taking IELTS since my OH would need to take it for Australia anyway due to her nationality.
So does that mean that I can only claim for work experience accrued after receiving my degree or that I can claim points for work experience from before my degree was conferred?
I have no problem with taking IELTS since my OH would need to take it for Australia anyway due to her nationality.
Jan 16th 2017, 9:03 am
#10
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 623
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
ACS applicants need to meet education and employment requirements for a positive skills assessment.
Points for employment are only awarded after both skills requirements are met.
e.g. You have been a software engineer for the last five years. However, your software engineering bachelor degree was only awarded three years ago.
Highly relevant ICT degree holders require two years relevant employment to meet skills requirements, so in this example the applicant will have met both requirements once his degree was awarded, as he already had two years prior to the award of the degree - anything after the degree will be counted for points, in this example 5 points for three years.
If the degree was only awarded this year, then the applicant would get 0 points, despite having 5 years' employment, because he/she only just met both the educational and employment requirements this year.
Points for employment are only awarded after both skills requirements are met.
e.g. You have been a software engineer for the last five years. However, your software engineering bachelor degree was only awarded three years ago.
Highly relevant ICT degree holders require two years relevant employment to meet skills requirements, so in this example the applicant will have met both requirements once his degree was awarded, as he already had two years prior to the award of the degree - anything after the degree will be counted for points, in this example 5 points for three years.
If the degree was only awarded this year, then the applicant would get 0 points, despite having 5 years' employment, because he/she only just met both the educational and employment requirements this year.
Last edited by Richard_Gregan; Jan 16th 2017 at 9:05 am.
Jan 16th 2017, 10:24 am
#11
Sidecar Falcon
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,504
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
Fortunately, at least for now, the points awarded for age in Australia freeze between the ages of 33 and 39 so we still have a few years to go before we lose anything on that and my better half is now in her second year of full-time work as an assistant kitchen manager and sous-chef.
Even though I am technically the more professionally experienced one I think the better option in our case if we did decide on Australia may be to wait until her experience has reached 3 years and apply with her as the principal applicant. However her degree is in no way related to what she does now. Presumably that would not be a problem for the TRA?
She could also be eligible for an addtional 5 points if she registered with NAATI as a qualified interpreter since her native language is on the list and she has worked as a translator before.
Last edited by DigitalGhost; Jan 16th 2017 at 10:43 am.
Jan 16th 2017, 9:44 pm
#12
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Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,853
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
I thought that would be the case unfortunately, thanks to everyone who has helped with this. It's really appreciated.
Fortunately, at least for now, the points awarded for age in Australia freeze between the ages of 33 and 39 so we still have a few years to go before we lose anything on that and my better half is now in her second year of full-time work as an assistant kitchen manager and sous-chef.
Even though I am technically the more professionally experienced one I think the better option in our case if we did decide on Australia may be to wait until her experience has reached 3 years and apply with her as the principal applicant. However her degree is in no way related to what she does now. Presumably that would not be a problem for the TRA?
She could also be eligible for an addtional 5 points if she registered with NAATI as a qualified interpreter since her native language is on the list and she has worked as a translator before.
Fortunately, at least for now, the points awarded for age in Australia freeze between the ages of 33 and 39 so we still have a few years to go before we lose anything on that and my better half is now in her second year of full-time work as an assistant kitchen manager and sous-chef.
Even though I am technically the more professionally experienced one I think the better option in our case if we did decide on Australia may be to wait until her experience has reached 3 years and apply with her as the principal applicant. However her degree is in no way related to what she does now. Presumably that would not be a problem for the TRA?
She could also be eligible for an addtional 5 points if she registered with NAATI as a qualified interpreter since her native language is on the list and she has worked as a translator before.
If you wait, there is no guarantee that either occupation will be on the skills list in future years, or that the points requirement will remain the same, etc.
Jan 16th 2017, 10:42 pm
#13
Sidecar Falcon
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,504
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
If you are in the 33-39 years age bracket, this is worth 25 points. A degree is 15 points, and maxing IELTS is another 20. This would get you the 60 points needed providing you pass the skills assessment.
If you wait, there is no guarantee that either occupation will be on the skills list in future years, or that the points requirement will remain the same, etc.
If you wait, there is no guarantee that either occupation will be on the skills list in future years, or that the points requirement will remain the same, etc.
I know that is considered to be the passing grade but I wasn't sure if any application that merely met with the minimum requirement would be entertained.
Jan 17th 2017, 10:16 am
#14
Sidecar Falcon
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,504
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
OK so for the RPL, I apparently need 8 years of relevant work experience.
Assuming that they accept every piece of work experience that I have from that time as qualifying, that shouldn't be a problem although I'm not quite sure that I am there yet. I have been full-time employed since mid-2008 but have had short gaps in my employment due to contracts, relocation etc.
So just to clarify, under that arrangement I would essentially be ignoring any Australian accreditation of my degree and instead just ask them to look at my work experience based on past/current job descriptions, employment contracts etc?
Would they actually allow someone like me to do that considering that I technically do hold a tertiary qualification, just not one that can be used for suitability purposes yet?
Work Experience Only – Recognition of Prior Learning
If you do not hold any tertiary educational qualifications, you will require 8 years relevant work experience completed anytime in your past work history, plus a suitable Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) application to meet the suitability criteria.
If you do not hold any tertiary educational qualifications, you will require 8 years relevant work experience completed anytime in your past work history, plus a suitable Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) application to meet the suitability criteria.
So just to clarify, under that arrangement I would essentially be ignoring any Australian accreditation of my degree and instead just ask them to look at my work experience based on past/current job descriptions, employment contracts etc?
Would they actually allow someone like me to do that considering that I technically do hold a tertiary qualification, just not one that can be used for suitability purposes yet?
Jan 18th 2017, 10:06 am
#15
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 623
Re: Experience and degree question for Australia points test
According to ACS criteria for RPLs, if you have a tertiary degree, or any qualification deemed AQF Diploma level or above, then you can still include this with the RPL - not that it counts towards the RPL itself, but because those with a non-related diploma or higher qualification only need to provide 6 years of employment evidence, rather than 8 years for those with no qualifications at all.