Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
#1
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 708
Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
Hi Guys,
Today I went to renew my Australian passport and just about the first thing the guy at Australia Post did was to destroy my perfectly valid Oz passport. After doing this he informed me that the replacement passport would take at least three weeks to get here.
I need to travel pretty soon and three weeks minimum before I can even book a ticket isn't on my itinerary.
I do have a UK passport and of course my cancelled but still certified Australian passport along with my Australian drivers license.
I'm aware that one should enter and leave the country of citizenship with the passport of that country, but the Aus Gov Immigration site is rather vague, stating that not having a valid Australian travel document might delay entry and exit to the country...........delays at Australian Immigration, who'd have thought it :-)
I intend to travel to the UK and once there will be able to have my new Australian passport sent onto me. So my main concern is leaving the country, I have a feeling that I once left Oz by using my UK passport accidentally ( both in the same pocket ), but I don't want to meet "poor little Johnny Jobsworth " after the 40 minute departure queue at SYD.
I've contacted Australian Immigration and I've been advised that I will be called back, but as Christmas doesn't officially end here until the start of Easter, I'm not holding my breath.
Any first hand knowledge would be appreciated :-)
Today I went to renew my Australian passport and just about the first thing the guy at Australia Post did was to destroy my perfectly valid Oz passport. After doing this he informed me that the replacement passport would take at least three weeks to get here.
I need to travel pretty soon and three weeks minimum before I can even book a ticket isn't on my itinerary.
I do have a UK passport and of course my cancelled but still certified Australian passport along with my Australian drivers license.
I'm aware that one should enter and leave the country of citizenship with the passport of that country, but the Aus Gov Immigration site is rather vague, stating that not having a valid Australian travel document might delay entry and exit to the country...........delays at Australian Immigration, who'd have thought it :-)
I intend to travel to the UK and once there will be able to have my new Australian passport sent onto me. So my main concern is leaving the country, I have a feeling that I once left Oz by using my UK passport accidentally ( both in the same pocket ), but I don't want to meet "poor little Johnny Jobsworth " after the 40 minute departure queue at SYD.
I've contacted Australian Immigration and I've been advised that I will be called back, but as Christmas doesn't officially end here until the start of Easter, I'm not holding my breath.
Any first hand knowledge would be appreciated :-)
Last edited by Hino; Jan 9th 2015 at 2:00 am.
#2
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
Perhaps the obvious first answer, is why did you not apply for Priority Processing?
https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/PriorityProcFee.aspx
Normally you have to submit the existing passport when applying for a renewal, and the cancelled passport is returned to you. That's always been the case. If they have streamlined this process, that avoids having to physically send in the old passport, that should not be something to complain about.
And by the way, the expired passport still constitutes evidence of Australian citizenship. It's just no good as a travel document.
https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/PriorityProcFee.aspx
Normally you have to submit the existing passport when applying for a renewal, and the cancelled passport is returned to you. That's always been the case. If they have streamlined this process, that avoids having to physically send in the old passport, that should not be something to complain about.
And by the way, the expired passport still constitutes evidence of Australian citizenship. It's just no good as a travel document.
#3
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Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 708
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
Actually that's a question not an answer, but thanks for your input and all those details about old passports having to be handed in etc....all very handy.
Australian immigration have now had the good grace to return my call and as I thought, there is nothing to stop my leaving Australia on a European passport, the only problem is that I probably wouldn't be able to get back....
Australian immigration have now had the good grace to return my call and as I thought, there is nothing to stop my leaving Australia on a European passport, the only problem is that I probably wouldn't be able to get back....
Perhaps the obvious first answer, is why did you not apply for Priority Processing?
https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/PriorityProcFee.aspx
Normally you have to submit the existing passport when applying for a renewal, and the cancelled passport is returned to you. That's always been the case. If they have streamlined this process, that avoids having to physically send in the old passport, that should not be something to complain about.
And by the way, the expired passport still constitutes evidence of Australian citizenship. It's just no good as a travel document.
https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/PriorityProcFee.aspx
Normally you have to submit the existing passport when applying for a renewal, and the cancelled passport is returned to you. That's always been the case. If they have streamlined this process, that avoids having to physically send in the old passport, that should not be something to complain about.
And by the way, the expired passport still constitutes evidence of Australian citizenship. It's just no good as a travel document.
#4
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
Actually that's a question not an answer, but thanks for your input and all those details about old passports having to be handed in etc....all very handy.
Australian immigration have now had the good grace to return my call and as I thought, there is nothing to stop my leaving Australia on a European passport, the only problem is that I probably wouldn't be able to get back....
Australian immigration have now had the good grace to return my call and as I thought, there is nothing to stop my leaving Australia on a European passport, the only problem is that I probably wouldn't be able to get back....
#5
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
There is a de-facto obligation to use an Australian passport on return, since non-Australian citizens need a visa, and Australian citizens cannot have a visa. So in theory, an Australian citizen should not be able to get an ETA/eVisitor or any other kind of Australian visa. The main exception would concern Australian citizens with New Zealand passports. An Australian citizen with an NZ passport could use that passport to fly to Australia and then deal with proving Australian citizenship on arrival. Customs/Immigration still wouldn't like it, so unless there is a very good reason, this option is not recommended.
#6
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 7
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
Hi mate.
I had a similar situation.
What will happen is on leaving your exit card you will say your Australian going on holiday and returning. They will ask why you don't have au passport, so tell them the story.
They will then take you aside quickly and photocopy your eu passport for records then your away.
Coming back next step.
The airline will not let you check in unless you have visa or au passport.
First get there a little early and go to your airlines info desk.
Explain your Australian etc, no au passport...
They will call the customs office in Australia give your details then they may ask you a couple of simple personal questions.
Authority to enter is then given over the phone.
Airline will do some updating their systems.
Now you can check in for flight.
The fun part still to come..
On entry to Australia have to repeat your story again.
They will take you to the office bit and ask you to wait outside.
They take your eu passport, you wait 10 mins, they return with entry stamp in passport.
This is what will happen.
I had to go through this 2 times though on the 2nd time when they made that call from the UK to au customs the agent on the phone was very demanding i don't keep entering this way and to get the passport, but overall it was ok.
I have passport now life is easier.
I had a similar situation.
What will happen is on leaving your exit card you will say your Australian going on holiday and returning. They will ask why you don't have au passport, so tell them the story.
They will then take you aside quickly and photocopy your eu passport for records then your away.
Coming back next step.
The airline will not let you check in unless you have visa or au passport.
First get there a little early and go to your airlines info desk.
Explain your Australian etc, no au passport...
They will call the customs office in Australia give your details then they may ask you a couple of simple personal questions.
Authority to enter is then given over the phone.
Airline will do some updating their systems.
Now you can check in for flight.
The fun part still to come..
On entry to Australia have to repeat your story again.
They will take you to the office bit and ask you to wait outside.
They take your eu passport, you wait 10 mins, they return with entry stamp in passport.
This is what will happen.
I had to go through this 2 times though on the 2nd time when they made that call from the UK to au customs the agent on the phone was very demanding i don't keep entering this way and to get the passport, but overall it was ok.
I have passport now life is easier.
Last edited by jamesmrichardson; Jan 19th 2015 at 4:21 pm.
#7
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
Or they won't and tell you tough crap, you're not boarding without either a visa or Australian passport and it's the traveller's responsibility to ensure that they have the correct documentation.
#8
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
Hi mate.
I had a similar situation.
What will happen is on leaving your exit card you will say your Australian going on holiday and returning. They will ask why you don't have au passport, so tell them the story.
They will then take you aside quickly and photocopy your eu passport for records then your away.
Coming back next step.
The airline will not let you check in unless you have visa or au passport.
First get there a little early and go to your airlines info desk.
Explain your Australian etc, no au passport...
They will call the customs office in Australia give your details then they may ask you a couple of simple personal questions.
Authority to enter is then given over the phone.
Airline will do some updating their systems.
Now you can check in for flight.
The fun part still to come..
On entry to Australia have to repeat your story again.
They will take you to the office bit and ask you to wait outside.
They take your eu passport, you wait 10 mins, they return with entry stamp in passport.
This is what will happen.
I had to go through this 2 times though on the 2nd time when they made that call from the UK to au customs the agent on the phone was very demanding i don't keep entering this way and to get the passport, but overall it was ok.
I have passport now life is easier.
I had a similar situation.
What will happen is on leaving your exit card you will say your Australian going on holiday and returning. They will ask why you don't have au passport, so tell them the story.
They will then take you aside quickly and photocopy your eu passport for records then your away.
Coming back next step.
The airline will not let you check in unless you have visa or au passport.
First get there a little early and go to your airlines info desk.
Explain your Australian etc, no au passport...
They will call the customs office in Australia give your details then they may ask you a couple of simple personal questions.
Authority to enter is then given over the phone.
Airline will do some updating their systems.
Now you can check in for flight.
The fun part still to come..
On entry to Australia have to repeat your story again.
They will take you to the office bit and ask you to wait outside.
They take your eu passport, you wait 10 mins, they return with entry stamp in passport.
This is what will happen.
I had to go through this 2 times though on the 2nd time when they made that call from the UK to au customs the agent on the phone was very demanding i don't keep entering this way and to get the passport, but overall it was ok.
I have passport now life is easier.
#9
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 7
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
I had the experience with Singapore Airlines and Emirates.
Both were accommodating.
You're right it is the traveller's responsibility to ensure that they have the correct documentation though on a common sense view/human level they will understand and will contact the relevant department in Australia.
I myself was so worried the first time this happened then again the second time this happened about not coming home on a British Passport though both times it was OK.
Airlines have dealt with this situation many of time.
This is known as 'uplift approval' or simply 'uplift', as in 'getting an uplift'. It relies on your particular airline representative on the day being familiar with this procedure and then able and willing to call DIBP on your behalf to request this for you and even then there is no guarantee you will be allowed to board. As such it is only recommendable as a last resort.
It is a total last resort to use this method.
I was researching the same question before the first time I had to do this and reading multiple forums, some people saying "if's and buts" etc which didn't make me feel great about what was about to happen.
I did call the airline prior to leaving and explained I didn't have the AUS passport to come back and both times, both airlines I used explained it would not be an issue, just get there earlier.
I still think there may be people that will doubt this, unless they themselves have actually done this and been rejected at check-in, or had to go through the same process and had issues etc I think they would be in a better position to be more credible.
Personally if I had to do this again today I know 100% I will be boarding the plane to return to Australia on my British Passport.
I'm quite sure you will be ok too
Like I said, I've done this 2 times, both times without issue.
If you still have doubt (which I don't think you should at all) get an emergency passport in Australia before you go or the UK.
They make them very fast. 1-2 days.
They exist for a number of reasons, one of the reasons been this exact situation you are in now.
Call the passport office and check which documents you would need to get one if applying overseas and take them. Or make it here if you have time
Though I'll reiterate my experience which has happened 2 times on my British Passport, there was no problem!
Last edited by jamesmrichardson; Jan 20th 2015 at 9:43 am.
#10
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,787
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
I'm sure airlines would accommodate a customer.
I had the experience with Singapore Airlines and Emirates.
Both were accommodating.
You're right it is the traveller's responsibility to ensure that they have the correct documentation though on a common sense view/human level they will understand and will contact the relevant department in Australia.
I myself was so worried the first time this happened then again the second time this happened about not coming home on a British Passport though both times it was OK.
Airlines have dealt with this situation many of time.
There will be a representative (customer service manager) that day who will be able to assist in this matter who will contact the relevant authorities in Australia.
It is a total last resort to use this method.
I was researching the same question before the first time I had to do this and reading multiple forums, some people saying "if's and buts" etc which didn't make me feel great about what was about to happen.
I did call the airline prior to leaving and explained I didn't have the AUS passport to come back and both times, both airlines I used explained it would not be an issue, just get there earlier.
I still think there may be people that will doubt this, unless they themselves have actually done this and been rejected at check-in I think they would be in a better position to be 100% credible.
Personally if I had to do this again today I know 100% I will be boarding the plane to return to Australia on my British Passport.
I'm quite sure you will be ok too
Like I said, I've done this 2 times, both times without issue.
I had the experience with Singapore Airlines and Emirates.
Both were accommodating.
You're right it is the traveller's responsibility to ensure that they have the correct documentation though on a common sense view/human level they will understand and will contact the relevant department in Australia.
I myself was so worried the first time this happened then again the second time this happened about not coming home on a British Passport though both times it was OK.
Airlines have dealt with this situation many of time.
There will be a representative (customer service manager) that day who will be able to assist in this matter who will contact the relevant authorities in Australia.
It is a total last resort to use this method.
I was researching the same question before the first time I had to do this and reading multiple forums, some people saying "if's and buts" etc which didn't make me feel great about what was about to happen.
I did call the airline prior to leaving and explained I didn't have the AUS passport to come back and both times, both airlines I used explained it would not be an issue, just get there earlier.
I still think there may be people that will doubt this, unless they themselves have actually done this and been rejected at check-in I think they would be in a better position to be 100% credible.
Personally if I had to do this again today I know 100% I will be boarding the plane to return to Australia on my British Passport.
I'm quite sure you will be ok too
Like I said, I've done this 2 times, both times without issue.
In most cases they will try and help but I am at a loss to understand why you would make life so hard for everyone. Even if you like being difficult, what right do you have to make the life of a poor check in person so hard? Get the right documents, be they passports, visas, whatever, and quit making life so complicated!
Fortunately I think very few people on here will be taking your advice
#11
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 7
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
If you do not have the requisitie permission to enter the country, the airline can and will refuse to board you. Its not their responsibility to ensure you have the right documents, and they can simply say NO. If they carry you without permission they risk a huge fine and the cost of flying you back. If they decide they cannot reach anyone to verify your permission to enter the country, they will not allow you to board.
In most cases they will try and help but I am at a loss to understand why you would make life so hard for everyone. Even if you like being difficult, what right do you have to make the life of a poor check in person so hard? Get the right documents, be they passports, visas, whatever, and quit making life so complicated!
Fortunately I think very few people on here will be taking your advice
In most cases they will try and help but I am at a loss to understand why you would make life so hard for everyone. Even if you like being difficult, what right do you have to make the life of a poor check in person so hard? Get the right documents, be they passports, visas, whatever, and quit making life so complicated!
Fortunately I think very few people on here will be taking your advice
They CAN reach the authorities in Australia 24/7.
My flight was on a Saturday afternoon around 5pm. They contacted Australia around 2pm (1am Sunday Morning Australian time - don't quote me on the time differences possibly could have been an hour earlier or later then I said!)
Don't be at a loss to understand my situation, my situation is my own.
I did not make life so hard for the poor check in person, firstly they could not help.
It was the customer service manager of the airline that sits a customer service desk to assist with issues. That's what they are there for. They are not checking people in, they are to assist customers with a variety of issues, including mine.
And it was not a complicated/difficult process. Both times. It was very, very simple.
"Fortunately I think very few people on here will be taking your advice" - It's not about taking my advice. This is my experience with this situation (not advice). I think it is a very rare situation. And if people find themselves in this situation the information I have given here is the process that they will go through.
Like I said I have both passports now no more issues in my case.
Last edited by jamesmrichardson; Jan 20th 2015 at 10:12 am.
#12
Lost in the antipodes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 498
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
The last time I flew from London to Perth the computer system was down to verify passengers had correct entitlements.
Even with a printed PR visa label in my passport the airline would not issue the boarding pass for the Australia-bound leg. They told me to try again in Dubai, maybe the computers would be back online by the time the plane got there :S
Even with a printed PR visa label in my passport the airline would not issue the boarding pass for the Australia-bound leg. They told me to try again in Dubai, maybe the computers would be back online by the time the plane got there :S
#13
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
Coming home (Perth) from Toronto last week at the Emirates check in a woman beside me at the next agent was asked if she had a valid visa to enter Australia. She didn't. The check in staff told her that it was her responsibility to get one before they would check her in.
Now, James, if you've been lucky enough to have airline staff go to extra trouble for you then you're very lucky indeed. However, can you imagine how much extra time it would take and how much it would inconvenience every other passenger if an A380 full of passengers needed airline check in staff to verify their visa status?
Again...It is the passenger's responsibility to ensure they have the correct visa/passport.
Now, James, if you've been lucky enough to have airline staff go to extra trouble for you then you're very lucky indeed. However, can you imagine how much extra time it would take and how much it would inconvenience every other passenger if an A380 full of passengers needed airline check in staff to verify their visa status?
Again...It is the passenger's responsibility to ensure they have the correct visa/passport.
#14
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 7
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
The last time I flew from London to Perth the computer system was down to verify passengers had correct entitlements.
Even with a printed PR visa label in my passport the airline would not issue the boarding pass for the Australia-bound leg. They told me to try again in Dubai, maybe the computers would be back online by the time the plane got there :S
Even with a printed PR visa label in my passport the airline would not issue the boarding pass for the Australia-bound leg. They told me to try again in Dubai, maybe the computers would be back online by the time the plane got there :S
I'm guessing you're back in Australia now. So that issue was fixed in Dubai?
It doesn't sound like easy flight for anyone holding a passport not Australian on that day
Coming home (Perth) from Toronto last week at the Emirates check in a woman beside me at the next agent was asked if she had a valid visa to enter Australia. She didn't. The check in staff told her that it was her responsibility to get one before they would check her in.
Now, James, if you've been lucky enough to have airline staff go to extra trouble for you then you're very lucky indeed. However, can you imagine how much extra time it would take and how much it would inconvenience every other passenger if an A380 full of passengers needed airline check in staff to verify their visa status?
Again...It is the passenger's responsibility to ensure they have the correct visa/passport.
Now, James, if you've been lucky enough to have airline staff go to extra trouble for you then you're very lucky indeed. However, can you imagine how much extra time it would take and how much it would inconvenience every other passenger if an A380 full of passengers needed airline check in staff to verify their visa status?
Again...It is the passenger's responsibility to ensure they have the correct visa/passport.
Yes the check-in counter will not check you in for the flight.
The system can not allow it.
It has to be overridden on their computer by the contacting Australian Authorities which isn't done by the check-in staff its done at a different desk by another person, both times for me it was the customer service desk.
I guarantee in that situation the customer you refer to didn't just turn around and leave the airport and call it a day.
They would have asked to speak to someone else or the check-in counter would have got a customer service rep/manager to resolve this issue. - Most likely it would have been resolved if she was an Australian citizen.
Different story if she was on another kind of Visa before citizenship that has restrictions on travel, bridging visas etc but then anyone with common sense would first enquiry with the relevant department before traveling.
The first time I had to do this I was really worried to be honest.
I was in the UK, I contacted the consulate there + my airline and was told by the consulate of the process that would need to happen on returning. I then followed up with the airline on the phone with what I was told by the consulate and was told it would be ok. Even after all this I was still worried but at the end of the day it was ok.
"can you imagine how much extra time it would take and how much it would inconvenience every other passenger if an A380 full of passengers needed airline check in staff to verify their visa status?" - They do check/verify visa status when they check-in, normally every passenger would flag as they have the visa.
This situation we are talking about is completely different. It's like saying if every dual-national will show up at the airport without their Australian passport to fly here, that's not going to happen.
I won't say it's luck. eg, one day it go no problem but if I was leaving the next day and it was a different staff at the airport I would have an issue and no go. Like luck of flipping a coin. It's not like that at all.
There is a process for this very rare situation which airlines will assist and resolve for you.
#15
Lost in the antipodes
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 498
Re: Duel citizenship leaving on a UK passport
So all passengers flying on a passport other than Australian Passport holders could not get there Australian-bound leg ticket?
I'm guessing you're back in Australia now. So that issue was fixed in Dubai?
It doesn't sound like easy flight for anyone holding a passport not Australian on that day
I'm guessing you're back in Australia now. So that issue was fixed in Dubai?
It doesn't sound like easy flight for anyone holding a passport not Australian on that day
By the time I got to Dubai there was a queue at the transfer desk for onward boarding passes so I'm guessing vevo was back online.
Nope, and I could imagine there was not a lot the desk agents could do about it, just get passengers halfway there and hope for the best.