Darren M

Hi,

Is anyone else concerned about submitting a skilled worker application now with only 69 points?

At present that is my intention although I am applying for jobs as we speak which would increase this total.

It has been suggested to me that :-

1. The CIC may increase the 67 pass mark in the next few years
2. Immigration may be frozen for a few years to clear the backlog and then new rule implemented post freeze
3. I will definitely be rejected in 4 years time if I apply now with only 69 points

Darren

RodseyUK

It doesn't matter whether you have have 69 or 100 pionts, there is no guarantee that your application will be accepted.

1. If the points requirement does increase (highly unlikely as this will not decrease the processing time for a good few years after it's introduction) then I would interpret the following quote taken from CIC's website as meaning you would not be affected by a points increase. Here is the quote:

"As of September 1, 2006, Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) has introduced a new simplified application process for most federal skilled workers.

Under this process, you submit only a basic application form and fee. This guarantees your place in the processing queue, meaning that the regulations in effect on that date will apply to your application."

2. They may, they may not. Only the top brass at CIC will know this.

3. Whoever told you that is talking out of their arse - unless they have seen your application and it is not prepared properly. I applied with only 69 points and my brother applied with only 67 points and we both got PR.

iambof

I applied with 69 points too. Medicals have been with CHC over 3 weeks now and no PPR yet but suppose it's early days.
Remember with CHC London nothing is guaranteed anyway.

Darren M

Thank you both I feel a lot more confident again

Andrew Miller

How did you draw the conclusion that change of pass mark will not affect already pending applications????

Just read again what you quoted in bold text, memorize it and then read what current Regulations say in section 77:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2002-227/sec77.html

So, if pass mark goes up before your assessment or visa issuance then you will have to meet it as per current Regulations.

The quote from CIC site is very confusing as most falsely read it as some sort of guarantee that they will not be affected by change of pass mark. Unfortunately it is not so - it is only telling you that in case of change of Regulations (change of Regulations, not change of pass mark) you will be assessed under Regulations (not the pass mark) that were in force when you applied. And current Regulations provide for floating pass mark to be applied retroactively to all pending cases under R77. It doesn't say that you will be assessed under the pass mark that was at the time of application - it doesn't mention pass mark at all and it doesn't say that Section 77 of Regulations will not apply to you.

So, if you will be assessed under current Regulations then change of pass mark will apply to you and affect you.

Now, can you do me a favour please and show me where in current Regulations it is stated that pass mark is 67 points?

Section 76 is the only place where current Regulations mention the phrase number of points required (read pass mark) and it doesn't say what that number of points required is:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor2002-227/sec76.html

Instead it says that:

Number of points
(2) The Minister shall fix and make available to the public the minimum number of points required of a skilled worker, on the basis of

(a) the number of applications by skilled workers as members of the federal skilled worker class currently being processed;

(b) the number of skilled workers projected to become permanent residents according to the report to Parliament referred to in section 94 of the Act; and

(c) the potential, taking into account economic and other relevant factors, for the establishment of skilled workers in Canada.

And the above section is of course followed by section 77 stating quite clearly:

For the purposes of Part 5, the requirements and criteria set out in sections 75 and 76 must be met at the time an application for a permanent resident visa is made as well as at the time the visa is issued.

Again - how did you draw the conclusion that change of pass mark will not affect you if pass mark (number of points required) is not even stated in current Regulations???

I apologize to all for lengthy argument, but I needed to make sure that everybody understands the legal mambo jumbo in Regulations and will make sure to secure more points before his/her case goes into assessment stage. Providing of course that it will get into assessment stage in the first place. If current trend will remain as is then all available visa quotas in most visa posts will be taken by applicants with arranged employment and those who were tricked by CIC and submitted simplified application may never get assessed, even if CIC decides not to suspend accepting new applications at some point of time.

The only advantage of submitting simplified application now (as soon as possible) is that applicants who have only 67 points will still have their application accepted into queue and will have time and chance to gain more points prior to assessment. After pass mark goes up they won't have such chance any longer if their score will be below new pass mark - their applications will not be accepted anymore.

Andrew Miller

P.S.

Just to pre-empt any possible arguments that CIC will not risk another lawsuit and thus will decide not to apply retroactively pass mark to all still pending applications.

- CIC already once changed pass mark (from original 75 to current 67 points level) and accordingly with Section 77 applied such change retroactively to all applications already in the process;

and

- retroactivity of section 77 was already challenged in Federal Court and was upheld numerous times.

NewCanadian

Andrew, why CIC introduced simplified process?

Andrew Miller

We may never find the truth behind this strange move.

Some insiders claim that it was introduced as a smoke screen while switching government's policy from open to all, independent skilled workers immigration program we had until September last year to exclusively employment sponsored skilled workers program. Facts of giving the top priority (and really processing only those) to cases with arranged employment and not requiring any evidence with simplified application certainly support this claim and I cannot find myself any reason to challenge it.

Some claim that it was a political decision of then weak minority government - government that couldn't afford suspending federal skilled workers immigration program entirely under the threat of early election. I think that there is some merit to it too.

JAJ

Without any clear linkage between immigration points and employability in Canada, there is really no basis to retain the independent skilled program. If CIC can't or won't administer it sensibly, then it's not worth keeping.

At the same time, the longer the current Conservative government stays in office without making a serious change to the system, the harder it will be for them to blame the "backlog" on the previous government. I recall back in 1996 when the government changed in Australia, the new Minister was very quick to make some sweeping changes to the system (even without controlling the Senate, at the time).

Speaking of Australia, the Australian government has just announced further reforms to general skilled migration from 1 September 2007. With greater emphasis on English language skills, these are likely to favour those from English speaking nations.
http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/gener...nges/index.htm

Andrew Miller

Jeremy, as we well remember from the past the old law was also designed to be "work in progress" and it's General Occupations List was intended to be adjusted quite often to reflect employability in Canada through adjustable points for occupation and experience factors - and as history teaches us GOL wasn't adjusted at all for ages, resulting in selection criteria being completely outdated for over a decade.

Now we are in the same situation - extra low pass mark and points schedule are completely out of labour market reality. And it will always be out of reality as long as bureaucrats won't use the tools given to them by legislators to properly manage immigration program or if they will use them for pure political gains as it happened in Sep 2003 when Liberals lowered 75 points pass mark to current, completely absurd 67 points.

The saddest part of all of this is that unsuspecting applicants, submitting simplified applications in unprecedented numbers, will be the ones who will pay the price for doing nothing bureaucrats and politicians unwillingness to fix the problem, by having their Canada dreams destroyed.