mikeinitaly

Hi there

First of all thanks for this forum - what a resource!

I am British but living in Italy for the past 11 years. I am married to my wife who is Italian and we have a 2 year old boy who is wonderful. We are both 35 years old and speak English, French and Italian. My wife works an a company in sales and I am freelance.

I currently teach English here in Italy and have just started working as an electrician part-time which I absolutely love. I am also studying for a "high school" diploma on an evening course to enable me to work as an electrician alone.

Me and my wife would love to move to Canada (Ontario). We have always aspited to living another experience also because we met while living in a different countries.

We have done allot of research concerning climate, geography, house prices, cost of living, schools, laws, etc etc. We have also done two trips to this area and have decided that we want to move there (we don't know where yet, but that's besides the point). We are happy here in Italy, and all is fine in our life, we just want to move to live another experience and simply give it a try, especially for our son who can see another way of living, and for us to see something new and live differently. We're not trying to find anything or substitute or replace anything in our life. It's just our curiosity to try and make a go of it. We plan to move there around 2014.

We have done allot of reading about VISA requirements and just wanted some clarifications/confirmations regarding the following points. We think to have understood most of it but would need some more help. We really appreciate you guys helping me. This is our first post!

One way "into" Canada would be through the Federal Skilled Worker Program (as I write this Electricians are actually on the list). How do I know that this will be taken of the list next year for example (we cant!?)? Can I apply for a VISA now or do I have to wait until I get my qualification (I expect so)?

What about if I went to College there next year and did a course in this field? I have looked at a College in Brampton, Ontario who are offering a one year course in Electrical Techniques that leads to some apprentice programs. Could I complete this course and then apply for a work permit to complete my apprenticeship and then apply for citizenship through the Canadian Experience Class?

Another question concerns setting up a business. We currently have a small language school here in Italy that teaches English to adults. Its quite successful and we would even consider setting up a small language school in Ontario helping Italians come to our area to learn English. Could this be an option, applying for permanent residency through the "investors, entrepreneurs and self-employed persons class"? I have seen that to qualify for this you would have to make "significant contributions" to Canadian culture. What does this mean?

I have seen that one of the professions requested are ESL teachers under the unit group 4131 College and Other Vocational Instructors
English as a second language teacher (ESL) – college level
English teacher – business college
English teacher – college level
ESL (English as a second language) teacher – college level

teacher, English as a second language (ESL) – college level
teacher, English as a second language (except elementary, high school or university)

Has anyone had any experience of setting up a business in Canada?

I'd appreciate any help and I am actually still reading and printing as I send this thread! We are just trying to work out the best solutions.

Thanks to all and I hope to be in a position one day to help some else like me in the future!

Best to all
Mike

christmasoompa

Hi Mike, and welcome to the forum.

I'm afraid that not only must you be fully qualified, but as stated on the CIC website, you must also have at least one year's full-time work experience in the occupation you are applying under - so you need to finish your course, work for a year, and only then can you apply. That of course, is if electricians are still on the list by then - as you've correctly surmised, there is no way of knowing what will be on the list of eligible occupations by then as it changes regularly.

Studying in Canada can be a good way to get over there, but you are misunderstanding a few things. Firstly, you wouldn't be applying for 'citizenship' via the Canadian Experience Class, you'd be applying for Permanent Residency. Only once you've lived in Canada for 3 years as a PR can you apply for citizenship, so that's a way off - you need to get PR first.

Also, to qualify for a post-graduate work permit your college course must be at least 2 years long, so a one year course wouldn't do it. But if you can find a 2 year course, and then work in a Skilled job for a further year after that, you would then be eligible to apply for PR under the CEC program (again, assuming it's still in existence in 3/4 years time when you are eligible!).

Just bear in mind you won't be able to work much on a study permit, so it's not a cheap route unfortunately, but could be a good option for you if you want to go soon.

If you re-read the CIC website (apologies, but it does seem you are skimming over these programs requirements so far and I think you need to read in more depth), you'll see that you wouldn't qualify for the Self-employed program anyway with a language school - only certain occupations qualify, and they are either in sports or arts.

The entrepreneur program has been suspended, and the investor program is a good option if you have at least $1.6M, although it does take several years. If you have that kind of net worth, then have a read up on the investor program to see if you would qualify and if so, you can apply next July when the program reopens.


Professions requested for what? I'm not sure what program/visa route you are referring to when you mention NOC 4131?

I hope that the above helps a bit, I realise it's a lot to take in but slow down and re-read everything you've looked at so far, then you'll know exactly what you are eligible for.

Then you can shout with any questions about your intended visa route.

mikeinitaly

Hi there
Thansk for your reply. I understand your point about the qualification having been completed first, it's what i thought. Do you think that going there to study an appropriate course could be an alternative? Then, after that, if possibile I could try to find a job in that requested skilled field. I know it's easier said than done. How many years would I have to stay in Canada to qualify for PR? I understood 3 years. In those three years do I have to stay in Canada or could I take holidays for a week or so every now and again to Italy?

I really did misunderstand the part about setting up a business. I didnt even see that part and also I didnt see the part about the course needing to be two years.

We do have a few friends in Canada. If I was to have a written job offer, would the job have to be one of the skilled jobs they are looking for or could I find another job?

You are right, I am looking more into it, it's just that there is so much.

Thanks for your help I really appreciate it

Also my wife does!

Thanks
Michael

christmasoompa

Yes, that's definitely an option if you have the funds. Also, just to clarify, you wouldn't need a job offer in 'that requested skilled field', as long as it's a Skilled job (i.e. Level O, A or B on the NOC Matrix), it would qualify you for PR via the CEC.


If you are referring to the Canadian Experience Class, then yes, it would be three years if you are studying (2 years studying, followed by 1 year full-time work experience), or 2 years of work experience. You can leave Canada for holidays abroad during this time. For most other routes to PR, there is no minimum amount of time and it can be applied for before moving to Canada if you qualify.

Just to clarify, the list of 29 eligible occupations for the Skilled Worker program is only relevant for that one particular visa route i.e. Skilled Worker category 1. There are over 50 other routes to PR, and 'the list' of jobs has nothing to do with any of them. So if you can find a job offer (note it would need to be more than just a written job offer though, you'd also need a LMO or AEO to qualify for a visa), then that would potentially give you a visa. It wouldn't have to be anything to do with the list of 29 occupations for SW cat 1.

HTH.

R I C H

There are alternative ways to being self employed here - you can apply under a Temporary Work Permit to run your own business, and there are no restrictions as to what sort of business you wish to run. Biggest hurdle is to prove to immigration that your business will offer 'substantial benefit' to the local community.

christmasoompa

I know this is the route you took Rich, but tbh I have some doubts about whether or not that would be possible in today's economy. Just getting a LMO is sooooo much harder now, and I haven't heard of anybody managing to get one via this route for a couple of years, but maybe the OP will be able to do it.

R I C H

BE member Sumner5 informed me that she achieved it just this month for emigrating to Nova Scotia. Allay your doubts Oh, and for a self employed TWP, a LMO has no relevance.

parker14

Firstly, if life in Italy is fine then why try and fix it by leaving? Secondly, you make it sound quite easy to become an electrician at the drop of a hat. It takes a minimum of 4 years apprenticeship training before you can be considered qualified and then there is the experience required. Finally your English may need to improve "allot" in order to set up a language school.

mikeinitaly

thanks parker14
what exactly did you hope to achieve with that message? What if it does take a minimum of 4 years of training? does that make it impossible? and who said it can be done at the drop of a hat? is it possibile that someone can move to another country because they want to see another part of the world and another way of living? or do we all have to "escape" crime, unemployment, bad governments, silly neighbors or the weather? thanks for the tips but keep your sarcasm for another place til you're ready to say things like this in someone's face and not behind your little computer all the way over there

barbarazzi

lol well said! and good luck on getting yourself qualified. sounds like you are prepared to work hard and that's got to be worth something

mikeinitaly

thanks barbarazzi. there's nothing worse than behind the screen badgering from <snip> like martin here.

had he of helped me out or encouraged me in some way to achieve what he is trying to achieve (or already achieved for all we know) it would have been different. after all he asked for help too in his initial stages but now he has got what he wants...

where are you at? how are you finding it?
mike

mikeinitaly

could you explain this a bit rich? do u mind?
thanks
mike

R I C H

You can apply for a TWP (mine was issued for 3 years), on the basis of wanting to be self employed. You'll need to submit a business plan with all associated documentation (proof of funding, investment you're making, job creation you expect to achieve, support from the local trade associations, bank manager, mayor or whomever etc etc).

The key criteria immigration are looking to be satisfied by is that your plans will provide 'substantial benefit' to the local economy. There's no definition of what this means, so is open to local interpretation - eg a $50k investment into a new business in downtown Toronto is unlikely to suggest 'substantial benefit', compared to the same investment made in a small rural town.

The TWP will tie you to running your proposed business. You will not be able to derive income from other means. If you have a spouse/partner it's likely she'd be issued with an open work permit and would be able to seek employment wherever she liked.

There's no guarantee or direct route to PR via this option, so you need to consider if you have eligibility or a means by which PR can be gained long term, rather than having the TWP renewal issues every few years.

It can be a risky proposition, for example, I had to prove I'd made the investment (in land and property) prior to actually being issued a work permit. I could potentially have been left owning 32 acres with no legal means of deriving income from it. I was in Canada for several months as a tourist while trying to get paperwork in order and waiting for the TWP to be achieved. Immigration will offer no guarantees and you have to be comfortable with potentially having to carry all the risk associated with an up-front investment if your business plans include a requirement for premises/land/equipment.

mikeinitaly

OK I got that. What about if I were to study there? I was thinking of doing a two year undergrad course and then hopefully find an apprentice position. Could I still do this under a TWP?

Let's say for example that I were to get a job offer that doesnt appear on the skilled trades. Or if the job of an electrician were to be removed from that list and I had an offer from someone, would I still be elegible for PR?

Mike

barbarazzi

mike,
we're just at the research stage at the moment. my husband is facing similar issues to you - he was in the RAF for years and when he came out, he retrained as a plumber and bought a franchise (not our best business decision with hindsight). Any plumbers on the forum will no doubt have plenty to say about how crap these courses are etc - we've heard it all before! - it was definitely a steep learning curve for him and a lot of on-the-job "training", but he got to a stage where he could comfortably tackle your usual domestic plumbing issues. For the last 3 years, he has been working for a solar company. He's got all the tickets he needs to do the work and more but hasn't done a recognised apprenticeship. Now, it seems the work is predominantly solar pv, rather than solar thermal, so a lot of the work involved is electrics. He is currently doing the work himself but the company needs to get a registered electrician to sign it off. He's due to go on a pv course next month and then he'll be able to do his inspection and testing qualification, after which I believe he will have everything to become a fully registered electrician in the UK. However, we still have the issue of an apprenticeship. I don't know whether his experience would be enough for Canadian immigration purposes.
We may have to apply with me as the principal applicant - I would get a lot more points anyway because I've got a Masters degree - but none of my work experience fits into the 29 occupations for the skilled migrant category. I'm currently looking into the possibility of Quebec. My french is pretty rusty but I'm confident I could learn it pretty quickly, as I previously lived in Germany and spoke fluent German. My husband is a bit more hesitant lol.
Re your previous post, I also taught English when living in Germany - there are a couple of occupations of language instructor in a language school, which I thought better fitted my situation than teacher of ESL in an elementary school etc. Not sure whether that would be better for you too.
barbarazzi