Aviator

Even if they get their passports, without the other parents consent, or a court order they cannot legally be removed from the jurisdiction of the UK. If you did get as far as getting them on an aircraft, on entering Canada, immigration may well take issue, in the absence of a court order, or parental letter. Parental abduction is taken very seriously in Canada!

We went through the removal process many years ago, it was not easy, it was expensive and time consuming.

AC is a lawyer and knows the legal stuff on this. I would be getting a lawyer to help me on this.

Cchris

I will be doing so if their mother refuses to sign the document I have.
I'll be staying here until all is sorted. I know I need to make sure everything is present and correct. I just hope she goes for the best interests of my kids instead of her own selfishness.
I have enough paperwork and evidence to gain custody of the kids if this goes to divorce courts, she is answering bail to neglect and child abuse.
This is a tough time and I'm extremely appreciative of everyone's input and support here. Thanks guys. We are off to stay with my parents for the rest of the easter holidays tomorrow, so I'll have time to connect with the detective who is in charge of the case etc, and find some time to breathe too.
And the kids will be surrounded by people who care, uncles, cousins etc

DandNHill

Good luck. It might be a bit of a process but it sounds promising for you.

Cchris

So here is an update.
Been in UK for a couple weeks now. I have a Solicitor who has sent a letter asking for custody, which I do not think my ex is going to agree to. Social services agree at this time its best for the children to come back to Canada with me for the time being. I plan to bring the kids to Canada on what the social workers are calling a 'trial period' to see if the kids decide to stay or not basically from now until the end of summer break. At this point we return to meet with social workers, the ex etc to regroup and discuss.
In the mean time I will be taking the ex to family court with my solicitor representing me in my absence. My solicitor says that it isn't a cert that ill be granted full custody but sees many reasons that the court would favour me over the ex for custody. I am currently waiting for the police to release the passports to the social worker so that I can come home to Canada.

Aviator

Are you just planning in turning up at immigration and hoping they will be let in?

If so what is your plan B if they are refused entry?

Cchris

Why would they be refused entry. This is the bit I don't get? They would be coming with a planned return date within 3 months and travelling with their dad?
Plus they were all included on my application for PR, medicals done etc..

geoff52

You would think that the mother would want the best for her kids and not whats best for her.The kids are being used as a bargaining chip in this sad affair.
Such a sad situation for the kids for they are the victims in squalid affair. I guess the legal process has to run its course and hope there is a happy ending for the children.

Cchris

Sadly she is mentally unstable and can't admit she has done wrong.

Former Lancastrian

So what documentation are you going to provide to CBSA on arrival if questioned about the kids?
You won't have a sole custody order. What documents will you have to show you have permission to remove the children from the UK?
Just showing up and saying Social Services are giving you a trial period won't cut it. You will definitely need some form of letter or order saying that its OK to remove the children from the UK and that you have legal custody of the children at the present time.

Aviator

If they are coming as visitors, you as a parent have PR and live in Canada, the documents show you have responsibility for them from social services, rather than a travel letter from the mother. How do you believe this will be viewed by immigration? If they have return tickets and nowhere to go back to, it could well look like you intend for them to stay. Hence a possible refused entry, then you have to get them back to the UK, possibly yourself to look after them. It seems this could go well, or be a potential disaster. I would be getting everything lined up and do it the right way as kids are involved. Post 2 in this thread seemed to summarise it.

Cchris

But she isn't allowed access to the kids? I don't know, this is all so confusing. I do know the social workers and police are pressuring her to give permission.

Former Lancastrian

Were they declared as accompanying dependents though? PR hasn't been granted yet. CBSA would be aware that you the Principal applicant has a PR application in process so not unreasonable for CBSA to think there is the possibility of nobody returning to the Uk and awaiting the decision in Canada and receiving COPR forms then doing a flagpole entry to then get PR status.
You need to be very careful what you do and how you approach travelling to Canada just as visitors.

Cchris

Fair enough. Post 2 does summerise it. Shit

Cchris

I have PR, unfortunately they were on my application as accompanying dependents. Maybe the ex will agree for them to come in the next few days as the other options are not nice for any of us.

christmasoompa

Unfortunately, even just for a holiday any child needs the other parents permission, regardless of circumstances. Canada is known to be particularly hot on that, and it's worth noting (if you're not aware already) that Former Lancastrian is a CBSA officer, so his words are to be heeded. Who knows, it may even be him that you encounter at the airport and who could ask you for that essential written proof! Or maybe just one of his colleagues.

TBH, if you've got a solicitor I'm a bit confused as to why on earth s/he hasn't mentioned the relevant laws regarding taking a child out of their home country? I don't know enough about it, but I've got a vague recollection it comes under something called The Hague Convention, so maybe have a search of the forum for that wording to find some relevant threads?

Best of luck.