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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 1:43 am   #1
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Default Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

Hi All ,
My son Lewis who is 21 this coming April has failed to keep his 2 Years out of 5 requirements to renew his PR this coming June.
The reasons being he decided to go back to finish his schooling in the UK and ultimately took an a 3 years Apprenticeship with BAE Systems as a welder.

We have got an immigration Lawyer to advice us ,who is basically telling us we have two options .
1 He can apply for a PR Travel Document and ask for an extension for his PR on Humanitarian grounds.
2. Or he can relinquish his PR and for us to apply to sponsor him as he is under 21.
Unfortunately this Lawyer won't give us advise on which is the better option, which is bloody weird.
Has anyone came across this situation before and what option do you think is the best option.

Best regards
Arthur
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 2:34 am   #2
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

It's not up to the lawyer to make decisions for you. The lawyer's job is to present you with the options so you can make an informed decision and then instruct the lawyer to proceed.

I'm sure the lawyer will have presented you with the pros and cons of each option and told you there's no perfect solution (there usually isn't).

What are you/your son minded to do?

Another Q: how committed is your son to Canada?

As an aside, it's his PR card which expires in June not his PR staus. Is he ready to move back to Canada immediately? Or is it some time in the future that he wants to move? I assume the latter or he'd have moved back to Canada already.

I'm asking these Qs not because I'm heartless and I don't care but because I think the answers are important in terms of how you decide to proceed.

I do remember you posting about your son some time ago and at the time, it was still possible for him to meet his residency obligation, if I recall correctly. So I suppose I'm just wondering what is in your son's mind as to what he wants to do.

Last edited by Snowy560; Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:18 am.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 11:47 am   #3
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

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Originally Posted by Snowy560 View Post
It's not up to the lawyer to make decisions for you. The lawyer's job is to present you with the options so you can make an informed decision and then instruct the lawyer to proceed.

I'm sure the lawyer will have presented you with the pros and cons of each option and told you there's no perfect solution (there usually isn't).

What are you/your son minded to do?

Another Q: how committed is your son to Canada?

As an aside, it's his PR card which expires in June not his PR staus. Is he ready to move back to Canada immediately? Or is it some time in the future that he wants to move? I assume the latter or he'd have moved back to Canada already.

I'm asking these Qs not because I'm heartless and I don't care but because I think the answers are important in terms of how you decide to proceed.

I do remember you posting about your son some time ago and at the time, it was still possible for him to meet his residency obligation, if I recall correctly. So I suppose I'm just wondering what is in your son's mind as to what he wants to do.
Hi Snowy560,
Yes the lawyer has explained both options, to be honest I am still unsure as to what is the best way forward.I was hoping for her to help to guide us in the right direction.
He is wanting to move back after his apprenticeship which finishes this September.I think our best option is for Lewis to relinquish his PR and for us to sponsor him and how long thats takes is anyones guess.

Thanks for Replying.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 11:51 am   #4
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

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Hi Snowy560,
Yes the lawyer has explained both options, to be honest I am still unsure as to what is the best way forward.I was hoping for her to help to guide us in the right direction.
My personal opinion is that you'd be mad to consider a H&C application. They take years and so few are granted, I really can't see any grounds for one personally, your son chose to go back to the UK and let his PR status go, so it doesn't really meet the H&C criteria IMO.

Don't forget you need to apply to sponsor him whilst he's still a dependent child. So he can't dilly dally about it for much longer!

Quote:
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He is wanting to move back after his apprenticeship which finishes this September.I think our best option is for Lewis to relinquish his PR and for us to sponsor him and how long thats takes is anyones guess.
Such a shame that he didn't just do his apprenticeship in Canada! Most foreign apprenticeships are useless without a certain number of years work experience anyway (depending on the job), so he may not be able to work in the job he's trained hard for in Canada. That's another thing to look in to.

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I think our best option is for Lewis to relinquish his PR and for us to sponsor him and how long thats takes is anyones guess.
Check application processing times – Immigration and citizenship

HTH.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 2:52 pm   #5
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

I don't think the lawyer's referring to an H&C Application as such (which is an in Canada Application) but rather citing H&C factors in the context of a PRTD app or PR RO appeal.

I think I know how I'd approach it but a lot would depend on the son's commitment to Canada.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 2:56 pm   #6
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty View Post
Hi All ,
My son Lewis who is 21 this coming April has failed to keep his 2 Years out of 5 requirements to renew his PR this coming June.
The reasons being he decided to go back to finish his schooling in the UK and ultimately took an a 3 years Apprenticeship with BAE Systems as a welder.

We have got an immigration Lawyer to advice us ,who is basically telling us we have two options .
1 He can apply for a PR Travel Document and ask for an extension for his PR on Humanitarian grounds.
2. Or he can relinquish his PR and for us to apply to sponsor him as he is under 21.
Unfortunately this Lawyer won't give us advise on which is the better option, which is bloody weird.
Has anyone came across this situation before and what option do you think is the best option.

Best regards
Arthur
my daughter who is 18 got her PR travel document and came here in the summer and i then applied for PR even though it had lapsed on humanitarian grounds...she was granted her PR in November ....im still waiting on my son's PR who is 14...and funnily enough my renewal..even though my PR has never lapsed.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 3:00 pm   #7
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

Let's be clear about this. Your Permanent Resident status does not just lapse. A PR remains a PR until an official process happens or they become a citizen even if they have not met the Residency Obligation. You don't just lose your status until it is officially determined that you are no longer a PR.

How often does your son come to Canada (Q to Arty)?

Last edited by Snowy560; Jan 3rd 2018 at 4:14 pm.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 4:45 pm   #8
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

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Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
Most foreign apprenticeships are useless without a certain number of years work experience anyway (depending on the job), so he may not be able to work in the job he's trained hard for in Canada.
No foreign apprenticeship is valid, or transferable to Canada. Some cannot be transferred across Canada. Only Red Seal endorsed are interprovincial.

To validate a trade qualification, give or take it is about 5 years full time work experience to challenge the trade and sit the exam. The alternative is to re take the apprenticeship in Canada (as a PR). The provincial training authority may grant some hours from overseas apprenticeship and work towards the Canadian apprenticeship, however this would not be a certainty. The only way to assess this is to meet with the provincial training authority and put a case forward.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 5:25 pm   #9
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

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No foreign apprenticeship is valid, or transferable to Canada. Some cannot be transferred across Canada. Only Red Seal endorsed are interprovincial.

To validate a trade qualification, give or take it is about 5 years full time work experience to challenge the trade and sit the exam. The alternative is to re take the apprenticeship in Canada (as a PR). The provincial training authority may grant some hours from overseas apprenticeship and work towards the Canadian apprenticeship, however this would not be a certainty. The only way to assess this is to meet with the provincial training authority and put a case forward.
Thanks Aviator, I knew you'd know! Such a shame the OP's son didn't just do the apprenticeship in Canada, would have meant no further study plus would have kept his PR status.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 8:04 pm   #10
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy560 View Post
Let's be clear about this. Your Permanent Resident status does not just lapse. A PR remains a PR until an official process happens or they become a citizen even if they have not met the Residency Obligation. You don't just lose your status until it is officially determined that you are no longer a PR.

How often does your son come to Canada (Q to Arty)?
Hi Snowy560,
Lewis has came over at Christmas for 2 weeks and every summer for 3 weeks since he decided to head back to the UK in Oct 2014.
Cheers
Arthur
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 8:10 pm   #11
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

I was just wondering whether he would be entitled to a travel document to go to Canada to appeal a negative PRTD decision:

http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/BoaCom...essResObl.aspx

I'm not saying that's the road I'd go down. I'm just thinking about the consequences of any decision you (or rather your son) make(s).
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 8:12 pm   #12
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy560 View Post
I was just wondering whether he would be entitled to a travel document to go to Canada to appeal a negative PRTD decision:

http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/BoaCom...essResObl.aspx

I'm not saying that's the road I'd go down. I'm just thinking about the consequences of any decision you (or rather your son) make(s).
1. As long as you have been in Canada in the past year prior to your appeal, a TD will be issued to attend the appeal.
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 8:20 pm   #13
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

Arty's son doesn't need a PRTD right here right now because his PRC hasn't expired yet (I don't think).
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Old Jan 3rd 2018, 8:38 pm   #14
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

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Arty's son doesn't need a PRTD right here right now because his PRC hasn't expired yet (I don't think).
Yes that is correct his PR is good till the end of June.

Thanks everyone for there replies ,much appreciated.I remember telling my son the consequences of his actions just before he flew home from Ottawa in Oct 2014.It was a hard decision at his age to come over ,but he made his mind up and now we need to try and secure his future here.

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Old Jan 7th 2018, 10:08 pm   #15
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Default Re: Failed to Fulfil PR obligations

Hi all,
many thanks to all who replies and pm us .We have decided to go through the H & C route failing that then we still have time to sponsor Lewis as the age limit has been increased to 21.

Art and Family
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