Cburns85

Hi guys i just want to pick someones brains and hope they know more than me? in feb 2013 i recived a caution for common assault, i wasnt convicted or anything like that i just got a slap on the wrist but on the dbs it does show the caution for common assault. it was merely a family issue with my uncle we had both had a few drinks and enden up in a scuffle nothing major or no serious injuries it lastet all of 1 minuite then it was over however my uncle called the police after i had left and 3 months later i had a knock at my door from a police officer wanting a chat about that night, that then ended in the caution, with all the expertise out there can anyone tell me if this will affect me applying for pr in canada?

Former Lancastrian

It will depend on if IRCC consider the caution to be a conviction. If not considered a conviction then not inadmissible. You could send an info only request to see if inadmissible by using this link
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...-activity.html

It will also depend on what the ACPO certificate says.

BritInParis

A caution is still a conviction; just one that you accept without going to court. Order an ACRO Police Certificate because it won't necessarily show the same details as a DBS certificate.

Former Lancastrian

I have been having this discussion with IRCC and CBSA for a few years and never been given a definitive answer on this. Each case is assessed on its own merits I was told. I have seen letters issued by the visa office in London stating it is and it isn't.
To receive a caution you have to admit guilt to the offence and if you choose not to admit guilt then the Police can still proceed by way of court action.
The IRCC in their manuals have this as a definition of a conviction
15.2 Conviction
A conviction is a finding by a competent authority that a person is guilty of an offence. A charge or a confession is not a conviction.
In cases involving a charge or a confession, the use of the “committing an act” provisions within IRPA may be appropriate.
A conviction does not exist in the following situations:
 the conviction is set aside on appeal;
 the court grants an absolute or conditional discharge as provided for in the Criminal
Code;
 the person is granted a pardon in a foreign jurisdiction and the pardon is recognized as
equivalent to a Canadian record suspension.

If you go to the UK Gov website regarding police cautions there is a para that states
A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.
https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty

There is no such thing as a police caution in Canada so the rationale some use is if that offence had been committed in Canada could a conviction arise and they use this taken from the IRCC Manuals

Officers should also recognize that a decision by a local policing authority not to prosecute is often a result of considerations that are specific to the criminal justice context and not necessarily consistent with the objectives of managing access to Canada. In other words, a decision by a local policing authority not to lay or proceed with charges should not automatically be considered as prima facie evidence that an offence was not committed; nor should officers be overly capricious in the use of the Act’s inadmissibility provisions

This becomes a bone of contention at Ports Of Entry with UK citizens who have not made an application like Spousal Sponsorship or other routes to Permanent Residency as opposed to applying for a work permit at a POE. Although the eTA application asks about convictions then I guess in the UK as its not a conviction most would be answering No so is there a case for misrepresentation?

The UK Police have given cautions for some very serious offences committed in the UK and if some officers are of the opinion that its not a conviction then they would be able to enter Canada.

Taken from a BBC article in 2013
In September, ministers announced that simple cautions for serious offences such as rape, robbery and supplying class A drugs would be banned.

There was a report in 2014 that cautions were going to be scrapped
Police cautions 'to be scrapped' in England and Wales - BBC News

So there is no simple answer but if working at a POE based on the Act I would find them inadmissible.

Cburns85

ok so what check is actually used when applying for pr to canada, is it a DBS or an advanced DBS or a ACPO CERT i dont know the difference or what differences they show. also by the time i apply the caution will be over 6 years old am i right in thinking it may not even show any more as im sure it dissapears after 6 years.

mikelincs

It will be the ACPO, and no, it doesn't disappear, that just applies to the UK, for other countries no conviction is ever 'spent'. What will happen is that the ACPO cert will show 'no live trace' which means there is something there but not recent, however you will still need to show the court records that apply to the crime, and it isn't what happened to you that applies, but what you could have got had they thrown the book at you, in other words the maximum you could have got.

Cburns85

ok but there was no conviction only a caution which is classed as spent immediatly if im not wrong.

mikelincs

No, for immigration purposes no conviction is ever spent in the eyes of the immigration people.

Cburns85

ok but again there was no conviction only a caution, its says on the GOV.UK website that a caution is not classed as a criminal conviction.

christmasoompa

That's not relevant to Canadian immigration though, different countries have different rules and because a caution is particularly British thing, most countries just treat it as a conviction as it's still an admission of guilt and they don't know how else to do it!

As said above by FL (who is a CBSA officer by the way), sometimes it's not treated as a conviction and other times it is. Got to say in my dealings with CIC, a caution has always been treated as a conviction for visa purposes, but he's obviously had some times where it's not been.

But if the caution is over 6 years old by the time you apply then it won't be an issue anyway, as it will be over the 5 years required for criminal rehab. How are you applying for PR?

Cburns85

Hi so my wife will actually be the main applicant and we will both be applyig through the FSW program for PR we are looking to get some things done this year i.e IELTS and ECA but we probably wouldnt apply untill next year and in feb 2019 it will have been 6 years since my caution other than that my record is clean as a whistle.

christmasoompa

OK, so if you're not applying until next year then I'd do the 'info' only app as mentioned above, that way you'll know for sure if you need to wait until more time has passed or not, and also you'll know if you can visit on holiday or if you're definitely inadmissible. It would stop any guesswork, so definitely worth doing IMO. If your 5 years is up in February, then after that point it shouldn't be an issue, but for peace of mind I'd do the info only app personally.

What is your wife scoring on the CRS? If she's eligible now then personally I wouldn't delay her applying, once you know you're admissible I'd apply asap, just in case the points level increases and she's no longer able to get PR.

Cburns85

we dont know what shes scoring indefinatly im still trying to wrap my head around it if im honest as we dont have our ECA or IELTS results yet so we would be guessing. we havnt actually started the process yet or created a profile ic been mainly just gathering info over the last coupme of months so i can try and figure out where to start.

christmasoompa

That's fine, everybody guesses - no point in paying hundreds of pounds for the ECA and IELTS if you don't think she'll be scoring enough! Best to check that first before worrying about your caution etc, as that's the first step, and you may find you need to adjust your visa strategy so you could be a few years away from applying.

So take the test assuming max points for English language ability (assuming she's a native speaker) and whatever education she has (bearing mind only academic qualifications count, professional or vocational don't), and that will at least give you an idea of whether or not she's likely to get PR.

HTH.

Cburns85

what would be examples of vocational or professional she has a diploma in childcare and education where she studied in a collage for 2 years and has 2 years working in this field as an ofstead registered childminder but. i have the NOC code for it. what would this class as?