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Old Oct 12th 2017, 3:03 pm   #1
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Default Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

Hi all,

Just a quick question I was hoping for some input on as I'm finalizing my citizenship application.

The new document checklist (picture attached) doesn't ask for PR Card, COPR, etc

However, the new guide (picture attached) does ask for one of them in the 'Gather your Documents' section.


So... who wins?

I'm tempted to submit a copy of either PR Card or COPR, and go by the guide. That way, I'm covered.

If so, would you include it in the order that the guide gives, i.e. PR Card, and then passport(s)? Or would you add it to the very end?

Thanks!

Graham.
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Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist-document-checklist-pic.jpg   Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist-guide.jpg  
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Old Oct 12th 2017, 8:47 pm   #2
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by graham1710 View Post
Hi all,

Just a quick question I was hoping for some input on as I'm finalizing my citizenship application.

The new document checklist (picture attached) doesn't ask for PR Card, COPR, etc

However, the new guide (picture attached) does ask for one of them in the 'Gather your Documents' section.


So... who wins?

I'm tempted to submit a copy of either PR Card or COPR, and go by the guide. That way, I'm covered.

If so, would you include it in the order that the guide gives, i.e. PR Card, and then passport(s)? Or would you add it to the very end?

Thanks!

Graham.
1. Don't forget the system has only been up and running for 2 days, so there are lots of bugs. You need to include a copy either your COPR, your PR card or IMM 1000 if landed prior to 2002 and never applied for a PR card.
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Old Oct 12th 2017, 8:56 pm   #3
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

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Originally Posted by PMM View Post
Hi



1. Don't forget the system has only been up and running for 2 days, so there are lots of bugs. You need to include a copy either your COPR, your PR card or IMM 1000 if landed prior to 2002 and never applied for a PR card.
Thanks! I thought so, and was planning to do so just to be safe. I have a copy of our PR cards in there (I chose them over for the COPR, for no particular reason).

Graham.
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Old Oct 12th 2017, 9:29 pm   #4
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

Interestingly, the instruction guide has now been updated as per this tweet from IRCC.

Document checklist has stayed the same, but guide has removed need for COPR, PR Card, etc.

I guess they don't need them anymore! Now I'm in two minds, keep the PR card copy in (along with the passports) or remove it... I don't suppose it'll do any harm to keep it.

Graham.
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Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist-guide-update.jpg  
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Old Oct 13th 2017, 3:29 am   #5
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

I'm a bit disappointed with the both the citizenshipp application form CIT0002 and the guide, I think both betray a lack of thought.. and since they've had 3 or 4 months to get it right I suppose I'm left scratching my head... e.g.

There is an instruction to answer all questions..

Section 9c asks whether you were outside Canada during the elegibility period and if the answer is yes it explicitly instructs you to complete CIT0177. This is a form that allows certain government employees to claim time spent outside Canada towards citizenship. The Help instructions are ambiguous and the bare form (with help section removed) retains a statement instructing all applicants to complete CIT0177, which for most will remain a blank form... but CIT0177 assumes you work for the Canadian government and of course all questions must be completed which is nonsense when to answer any implies you're telling lies. A simple statement to the effect that you only submit CIT0177 if you wish to claim time spent outside Canada as a government employee would help.

Section 15 asks for proof or otherwise of language skills if you're aged between 18 to 54. Neither the question or instructions gives any guidance as to whether to ignore or partially complete the question if outside this age range, but all questions must be answered and to answer any generates contradictions. A simple statement to the effect that the question is to be ignored if the claimant is outside the age range would make things a lot clearer.

It's not difficult to be clear and concise when you think about it.

Last edited by dave_j; Oct 13th 2017 at 3:33 am.
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Old Oct 15th 2017, 9:56 am   #6
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

Hopefully they will get the bugs and ambiguity ironed out before my wife applies for her in 3 years time!!!

.....but then again....
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Old Oct 15th 2017, 2:06 pm   #7
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
I'm a bit disappointed with the both the citizenshipp application form CIT0002 and the guide, I think both betray a lack of thought.. and since they've had 3 or 4 months to get it right I suppose I'm left scratching my head... e.g.

There is an instruction to answer all questions..

Section 9c asks whether you were outside Canada during the elegibility period and if the answer is yes it explicitly instructs you to complete CIT0177. This is a form that allows certain government employees to claim time spent outside Canada towards citizenship. The Help instructions are ambiguous and the bare form (with help section removed) retains a statement instructing all applicants to complete CIT0177, which for most will remain a blank form... but CIT0177 assumes you work for the Canadian government and of course all questions must be completed which is nonsense when to answer any implies you're telling lies. A simple statement to the effect that you only submit CIT0177 if you wish to claim time spent outside Canada as a government employee would help.

Section 15 asks for proof or otherwise of language skills if you're aged between 18 to 54. Neither the question or instructions gives any guidance as to whether to ignore or partially complete the question if outside this age range, but all questions must be answered and to answer any generates contradictions. A simple statement to the effect that the question is to be ignored if the claimant is outside the age range would make things a lot clearer.

It's not difficult to be clear and concise when you think about it.
Its the Government where nothing is clear and concise have you ever read the Income Tax Act?
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Old Oct 15th 2017, 2:10 pm   #8
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Section 9c asks whether you were outside Canada during the elegibility period and if the answer is yes it explicitly instructs you to complete CIT0177. This is a form that allows certain government employees to claim time spent outside Canada towards citizenship. The Help instructions are ambiguous and the bare form (with help section removed) retains a statement instructing all applicants to complete CIT0177, which for most will remain a blank form... but CIT0177 assumes you work for the Canadian government and of course all questions must be completed which is nonsense when to answer any implies you're telling lies. A simple statement to the effect that you only submit CIT0177 if you wish to claim time spent outside Canada as a government employee would help.
This is the bit I'm wrestling with just now... I think I'm going to opt for ticking the box and including a letter stating I lived outside Canada but it has nothing to do with working for the Canadian govt. and the time is not applicable for residency. Hopefully this will be OK!
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 7:21 pm   #9
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

yup am doing the new forms as I write and what a shambles!! agree about the no option for people over 54 ,,,what to do write N/A on the section,,, a friend is also doing his and it asks for every absence to be noted ......really fun as he sometimes crosses the border 3times in one day and in the USA in his truck 4days a week.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 7:35 pm   #10
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

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yup am doing the new forms as I write and what a shambles!! agree about the no option for people over 54 ,,,what to do write N/A on the section,,, a friend is also doing his and it asks for every absence to be noted ......really fun as he sometimes crosses the border 3times in one day and in the USA in his truck 4days a week.
I'm not sure if your friend is aware, but you can use https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/recent-search to get your arrival/departure record for the last 5 years. Really helped me out.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 8:51 pm   #11
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

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I'm not sure if your friend is aware, but you can use https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/recent-search to get your arrival/departure record for the last 5 years. Really helped me out.
Really, really useful, many thanks for posting this.
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Old Oct 18th 2017, 10:00 pm   #12
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

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Really, really useful, many thanks for posting this.
Glad I could help!
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Old Oct 19th 2017, 2:50 am   #13
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Unhappy Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
I'm a bit disappointed with the both the citizenshipp application form CIT0002 and the guide, I think both betray a lack of thought.. and since they've had 3 or 4 months to get it right I suppose I'm left scratching my head... e.g.

There is an instruction to answer all questions..

Section 9c asks whether you were outside Canada during the elegibility period and if the answer is yes it explicitly instructs you to complete CIT0177. This is a form that allows certain government employees to claim time spent outside Canada towards citizenship. The Help instructions are ambiguous and the bare form (with help section removed) retains a statement instructing all applicants to complete CIT0177, which for most will remain a blank form... but CIT0177 assumes you work for the Canadian government and of course all questions must be completed which is nonsense when to answer any implies you're telling lies. A simple statement to the effect that you only submit CIT0177 if you wish to claim time spent outside Canada as a government employee would help.
I'm scratching my head over this also. It's so unclear what they want. I landed as a PR on June 26 2013 however my eligibility period is from October 2012, so I lived in the UK but the form doesn't apply to me.

I sent a tweet to see if that would get any response otherwise I may try calling them in the morning!
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Old Nov 6th 2017, 7:33 pm   #14
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Default Re: Citizenship - Guide vs Document Checklist

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Originally Posted by dominiqueincanada View Post
I'm not sure if your friend is aware, but you can use https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/recent-search to get your arrival/departure record for the last 5 years. Really helped me out.
I also found this super useful, thank you. I had already sent off my application with dates I was sure of, and I'm so relieved that my dates match the records. I was particularly worried about one trip to the US where my visa waiver was not taken from my passport so I had returned it to the airport at a later date. Glad that didn't affect my departure date as I read some scary stuff about 'overstaying' if it isn't taken.
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