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Old Jun 5th 2017, 7:56 pm   #1
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Talking Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Hi peeps! I have been lurking within the forum for the past two years Read the majority of the very helpful threads. However in order for me to message people for more info/ further insights I must make a few threads/posts.

Me and my partner are permanently moving to Lake Balatan area in approximately two years, we have waited until our three eldest daughters are all grown up and flown the nest. My son (14) will be joining us, we are just waiting for him to finish his GCSEs.

We are flying out next month for a viewing trip, hoping to look at property/plots/farmland off the beaten track but close to some of the tourist destinations (Siofok, Heviz, Keztheley) We are looking to be far enough away to feel secluded and away from it all (off grid) but close enough for amenities and passing tourist trade.

We hope to purchase something this year, and then visit as often as possible to start building our dream until we can make it permanent.

Very exciting times!
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Old Jun 6th 2017, 11:43 am   #2
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Hi Mandst

We live between Veszprém and Balatonfüred (north shore capital). It is very convenient, has everything you need within reach. We live in a small village close to the lake. This area is much more residential than others around the lake so although it is quieter out of season it is by no means 'dead'.
We bought our house through Ingatlankínálat - Properties and they speak some English. Don't be afraid to use local agents.
By the way the education system here means that children stay in school until at least they are 18. Not sure what plans you have for your son?
If you have any questions please contact me.
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Old Jun 6th 2017, 11:45 am   #3
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Good Luck .... I have been lurking here for quite a while .... although not yet living in Hungary I'm over there with my Hungarian born wife sometimes twice a year. Like you my aim is to move within the next couple of years. With relatives living in the Miskolc/Malyi area there's only one destination where we will settle! We have friends there too.
At this point in time both my wife and I are hoping to find a property with just two bedrooms and enough land to grow what we need and not too much to make us slaves to the land!
Good luck ....
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Old Jun 6th 2017, 1:48 pm   #4
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

good luck.....we have been here 23 years and put 2 kids through school and uni. We are on the Balaton north shore (the only place to be) at the Tapolca end. We have enough land to grow what we need and not too much to make us slaves to the land - about 32ha in all - its not the amount of land that makes the slaves, it's how you manage it! The land laws make it difficult for those without agricultural qualifications to own land, but you will be able to own up to 1ha in any event. Going 'off grid' is easier and cheaper than it used to be, the main issue now would be water security and how deep the bore hole would need to be.
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Old Jun 8th 2017, 1:05 pm   #5
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

I wrote a long reply but my internet connection died when I was posting it, so it was lost. I was mainly saying that if you can't find the kind of secluded location you are looking for in Hungary it would be worth considering Croatia. You can send me a PM if you want to discuss this.
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Old Jun 30th 2017, 2:17 pm   #6
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Hi Everyone... I have just found this forum: and am visiting in July to have a look at some Winehouse's and other properties as a bolt hole. I was hoping to find something around Lake Balaton Fonyod to Siofok? As would be interested in a holiday let? Comments - Advice all welcome!
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 4:24 am   #7
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

My husband and I have resident permits for Hungary. We plan to visit 2-3 times a year if we can afford it, and later, live more of the year in Budapest.

In our visit to various European cities (Vienna, Prague included), we felt Budapest suited us far more - the parks on every street corner, a not crowded and easy transport system to most places we need to be in, and the beauty of buildings and trees, has us floored.

We are happy to hear people are so well settled in rural parts also.. but we stick to Budapest for now.. Though we visited a lovely town an hour out of Budapest - Keczkemet - and a village another 20 kms on. It was perfect.

My assessment was that Hungary was fairly well placed in times of climate change - but i am concerned with one member talking of the depth of the water borehole - how deep does it need to be now ?
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 7:48 am   #8
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Hungary has a lot of wells and springs (springs in the hilly regions) The depth you need to go to will depend upon where you are. I have 2 bore holes, one is 120m deep producing 200lts/min. (if I had a pump big enough) the other 30m. producing 17lts/min.they are within 500m of each other. A friend (3km away) has a borehole 130m deep producing 10lts/min.. Yet another friend (10km distant) has a borehole 25m deep and when they drilled to the water the water came up to +2m, so this is an artesian well.

So the depth of the bore hole very much depends upon the location and it can vary quite a lot within a few hundred meters. The quality of the water can also vary with some areas having a high iron content and other places having too much arsenic to be drinkable.

There are a lot of dug wells (80cm or wider) dug down to the first level water but generally these are not considered potable water as they can not be sealed so they are subject to contamination - although some people do use them for drinking - they are however usually OK for watering the garden. Dug wells can dry out in the summer - or at least be very slow in water production.

In areas where there are springs there are usually some tested regularly for drinking quality and these are usually signposted or the locals will know.
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Old Aug 3rd 2017, 1:29 pm   #9
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Hi,

We bought near Balaton 5 years ago and haven't regretted it since, although for the foreseeable future it's only a holiday home. We tend to spend a month or so here each summer and pop over at other times of the year too.

Location is very subjective but I'd echo Peter's comments that the Tapolca area (where we are as well) gives you the best of both worlds, proximity to the Lake but not inundated with tourists and all the services you need easily accessible.

Cheers,

Matthew
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 6:05 pm   #10
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Dug wells, very interesting.
Since you are now all well aware I live on the big boring flat piece in the middle of Hungary, and i know from the dug well in my garden the water table is only a few meters down.

So Google tells me that on the whole of the Carpathian plain there are 768,849 dug wells with an average depth between 3 and 7 meters, so water within easy reach.

But, and there always is, if you want good consistant water you will need a bore hole over 1000 meters, and even then the supply may be very limited because of the tightly packed nature of the strata, the closer to the centre the worse the flow will be.

So if you only want to water the plants then the plain is perfect, if you want to drink it stay closer to the hills.
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 8:03 pm   #11
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

With the weather as its been for the last month or so, I have been looking into the water well story as well.

My well must be hand dug. I assume it is because from what I can see, it is brick lined and about 400/500 cm odd wide.

In a rather rudimentary fashion I tried to measure the depth. From the top of the well to the water is roughly 4.8 m. I used a piece of rope with a socket attached to it and then pulled it up and measured from where i had been holding it until the rope was wet. As I could bee the water level from the top I just looked for ripples to let me know when the socket had entered the water.

I then put the same piece of high tech equipment back in the well and let it run down until I felt the socket was on the bottom. That showed me a total depth of about 6m. So 2m or 1.8m of water. A very rough way of doing it I know.

I thus assume that this is one of the "first layers of water" I have no idea as to flow rates etc.

I want to use the well water to water the garden, wash the car and things like that.

Can anyone with any knowledge of this sort of thing advise what sort of pump I would need. Single phase preferably.

I have my eye of this:

IBO 3" SQIBO-0.55 Borehole Deep Well Water Submersible Electric PUMP + 14m cable

Would that be any good? I know of some submersibles the torque can be a problem when the motor kicks in but that's about the limit of my knowledge.

Thanks
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Old Aug 4th 2017, 8:41 pm   #12
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Green solution, well, any colour you like actually!
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Old Aug 6th 2017, 5:24 pm   #13
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBA77 View Post
With the weather as its been for the last month or so, I have been looking into the water well story as well.

My well must be hand dug. I assume it is because from what I can see, it is brick lined and about 400/500 cm odd wide.

In a rather rudimentary fashion I tried to measure the depth. From the top of the well to the water is roughly 4.8 m. I used a piece of rope with a socket attached to it and then pulled it up and measured from where i had been holding it until the rope was wet. As I could bee the water level from the top I just looked for ripples to let me know when the socket had entered the water.

I then put the same piece of high tech equipment back in the well and let it run down until I felt the socket was on the bottom. That showed me a total depth of about 6m. So 2m or 1.8m of water. A very rough way of doing it I know.

I thus assume that this is one of the "first layers of water" I have no idea as to flow rates etc.

I want to use the well water to water the garden, wash the car and things like that.

Can anyone with any knowledge of this sort of thing advise what sort of pump I would need. Single phase preferably.

I have my eye of this:

IBO 3" SQIBO-0.55 Borehole Deep Well Water Submersible Electric PUMP + 14m cable

Would that be any good? I know of some submersibles the torque can be a problem when the motor kicks in but that's about the limit of my knowledge.

Thanks
Normally dug wells are 80-90 cm wide as a minimum because it is difficult for a man to be inside a) whilst digging and b) whilst building if they are narrower, however if that is what you have and at that depth it must be a dug well.

Given the dimensions and water depth you will have about 400lts of water standing in the well. You will not be able to use all of that because the pump can not suck everything - so perhaps about 250 to 300 lts useable water - until the well fills up, however as soon as you start taking water the well will start to fill, how long it takes depends on the flow into the well. A good well will keep up with the pump - so will not empty.

The pump you quote is designed for a bore hole and whilst it would work in your well it is perhaps not the best option.

Water pumps rely on the water to lubricate the pump and if they are run dry then damage will occur. Damage will also occur if the pumps are run dead headed. i.e. running the pump with a turned off tap on the outlet.

For dug wells, unless you know the flow rate then I would suggest a pump with a float switch which will turn of the pump if/when the water level drops e.g.
https://www.tessitore-szerszamok.hu/...W-INOX-haz-php
This pump will give you about 3 bar pressure and has the protection of a float switch. The operation will be turn on the power and water runs until well empties. If you want the ability to turn a tap on and off then you will need a pressure vessel with a pressure switch to control the pump. This system you will have to assemble your self from purchased components.

There are cheap vibrating membrane pumps but these are for cistern tanks and are not good for wells as the vibrations made during their operation can damage wells by collapsing the waterways into the well. People do use them in wells but they risk destroying the well. This type of pump can be seen here

https://www.tessitore-szerszamok.hu/...U-250W-40m-php

If you want the ability to have a tap that can be turned on and off without building your own system then you can get a ready made unit e.g.

https://www.szivattyubolt.hu/szivatt...jwm-60-41-24cl
This is a surface pump which is NOT self priming but will allow you to have a tap that you can turn off and on without damaging the pump. There is no protection against the well emptying but you could fit a float switch (about 20 GBP) to provide this. It will give you about 2 bar pressure.

The startup power for these pumps is no more than a decent hand held circular saw or drill and so is not normally a problem. Once you get to deep pumps, these days they tend to have soft start to get over the problem.

You can test the flow of your well quite simply. Measure the level of the water, then remove water (with a bucket or a pump) down to a new level. Measure the new level and time the interval needed to restore the water to the original level. Then calculate the amount of water removed and the time taken for the well to recover to the original level. This gives the flow.

Usually the more a well is used the more the flow will increase, assuming there is water in the surrounding land to be taken.


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Old Aug 6th 2017, 8:39 pm   #14
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Dear Peter, your replies are like a masterclass ! Invaluable !
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 8:09 pm   #15
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Default Re: Newbie, ready to take the plunge!

Peter described the options succinctly, thanks for that!

Not too much OT re wells:
I also had a well made of concrete rings on the land I bought - but one day in early spring around 15 years ago we had a lot of rain during a kind of warm front. The rain melted the snow and that mixture came down the hill like atorrent of water ...
Now in our village west of the Balaton the ground is essentially sand, no humus - so the rain took the sand into the well, between cracks in the concrete rings ...

In the end we had a well filled with sand - we haven't used it since.

Also that river of sand and water destroyed part of our garden - it became a kind of subterranean river and we had our construction guy in to fill it up again.

PS:
I hadn't realised this when I bought - in these places around the Balaton the soil is really just a mixture of sand and little stones, people often put just an inch or two of good soil on top for their plants.
When we plant a tree we make a hole in the sand and put in as much good soil as possible from further up on my piece of land where the soil is really good.

Of course my neighbours on the other side of the road which is lower are even worse off - they live in what could almost be called a kind of swamp - some time ago this was part of the Balaton of course.
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