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New Combi-Boiler

New Combi-Boiler

Old Oct 14th 2015, 1:31 pm
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Default New Combi-Boiler

It looks as though gas my combi-boiler has finally given up for good and will need to be replaced.

Can anyone recommend a good brand or model and a rough idea how much it should cost, including installation.

Many thanks.
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Old Oct 14th 2015, 3:09 pm
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

I don't know about makes - but from Jan next year (so I am told) you will only be able to get condensing type boilers. These are about 100,000huf more than the non-condensing type and whilst they are (theoretically) more economical due to a higher efficiency this is only true when condensing. In order for the boiler to be condensing the return temperature must be 50 deg or lower. Most heating systems are designed to run at about 80 deg flow with a return temp. between 60 and 70 deg. If you run the system at a lower temp. then you won't get the heat output that was calculated. (To get the same output from a lower flow temperature you need bigger radiators). In addition condensing boilers produce condensate which is acidic and must be led to a frost free drain.
So unless you can run a condensing boiler at the lower return temperature you will be wasting the money on the extra price. - But from Jan you will have no choice.

By the way my plumber charges 2000huf / hour / person. price for a boiler swap will depend how much work involved. i.e. how close a fit between the old and new. Ask for a quote first.

Condensing means that they reclaim heat from the exhaust gasses plus some gains from the process of condensing the vapour (latent heat of evaporation etc. and other fiziks that I have long since forgotten!!)

Last edited by Peter_in_Hungary; Oct 14th 2015 at 3:12 pm. Reason: price update
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Old Oct 14th 2015, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Sounds like you need to get your skates on and have it done before January! I installed a Worcester Bosch Combi in my cottage in Scotland but I don't know if that make is available in Hungary.
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Old Oct 14th 2015, 7:11 pm
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Just be aware that some uk badged boilers just go under a different logo abraod..ie Baxi = Main.
For me, (qualified plumbing and heating, although registration with Gas Safe now lapsed) Vaillant have always been a mark of quality and reliability.
Budget boilers that really are impressively good value (and condensing) Ideal Logic and Baxi Duotec come with 5 to 7 year warrantees in uk.
Hope it helps.
Just a note.....whats up with the old one ? most of the time, just needs the correct TLC to extend its life !
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Old Oct 15th 2015, 10:19 am
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

That's interesting about condensing boilers being the only option from January. As I have an apartment - rather than a house - how does that work with the drainage pipe? I have a Worcestor Bosch boiler in our UK house so I understand the principle about the drainage.

The boiler is old and has failed a couple of times and I would rather replace it in my own time rather than it failing completely and becoming an emergency.

Thanks again.
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Old Oct 15th 2015, 8:35 pm
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Originally Posted by rammy100
It looks as though gas my combi-boiler has finally given up for good and will need to be replaced. Can anyone recommend a good brand or model and a rough idea how much it should cost, including installation. Many thanks.
We had a new one last year in our village house - a Baxi - you can see the full range on line. Careful though, a new boiler, unless it is an exact replacement can open up a can of worms. Hungary has strengthened its gas safety regulations. We had to have a new Gas Plan drawn up & approved. We had to get rid of a gas hob unless we opened up a new vent & we had to have some very fancy work done to the chimney so that fresh air was pulled down the chimney, and fumes pushed out of the chimney - but the two must never meet. The fresh air is no longer taken from the house.
I'm sure all the work can be justified - and it all works very well now - but it took along time & was expensive. Next time we will replace with identical boiler. Good luck with your project.
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Old Oct 16th 2015, 7:32 am
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

The info from John and Peter is correct.
But you really need to act quickly because suppliers will not be replacing stock of boilers they soon will not be able to sell.
So buy now even if you do not fit for a while.
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Old Oct 16th 2015, 10:14 am
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Originally Posted by John Gilbert
Hungary has strengthened its gas safety regulations. We had to have a new Gas Plan drawn up & approved. We had to get rid of a gas hob unless we opened up a new vent & we had to have some very fancy work done to the chimney so that fresh air was pulled down the chimney, and fumes pushed out of the chimney - but the two must never meet. The fresh air is no longer taken from the house.
I'm sure all the work can be justified - and it all works very well now - but it took along time & was expensive. Next time we will replace with identical boiler. Good luck with your project.
This is correct and the reasoning is that with people putting in new efficient doors and windows houses are no longer plagued with free flow of air through old leaky windows so the danger of CO poisoning is very real. For a gas hob or gas oven a kitchen extractor is no longer sufficient, you need an inlet as well and the quantity of ventilation is also defined.

If you have a chimney with a stove of some sort and an kitchen extractor, with new windows the extractor will pull fumes down the chimney as this is the only place that air can enter to balance the extraction. If the stove is running then the extractor pulls in the fumes from the stove = CO and smoke. Bottom line under the new regs you can't have a solid fuel appliance and an open vented gas appliance in the same air space (normal internal doors do not make a separate air space).

This should not cause problems with gas boilers as they are all balanced flues, either through the wall or up an internal or external chimney - so you can install a gas boiler with balanced flue and retain your solid fuel stove.

Electric hobs would solve the problem of those wanting a wood burner but unfortunately very few houses have sufficient power to support any sort of electric hob with more than a couple of rings. (A power upgrade to support a 4 ring electric hob is likely to be north of 120,000huf)

(Every winter there are 1 or 2 people or families killed by CO poisoning due to faulty gas appliances)

Last edited by Peter_in_Hungary; Oct 16th 2015 at 10:16 am.
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Old Oct 16th 2015, 1:18 pm
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Thanks again for your replies.

Alas, time is not on my side here and to arrange all of this before the end of the year is a bit of a stretch for me because of other commitments.

As it stands at the moment we have an electric hob/oven in the kitchen so that isn't an issue. The boiler is located in the bathroom and is used just for hot water and the central heating.

It's located close to the chimney if that's the right word here....it's actually a vent that leads up from our first floor apartment right to the roof and in some way, I guess, services all the other apartments in our part of the building.

I'm not sure if that acts as a flu though and can picture a metal tube leading from the top of the boiler up into the bathroom ceiling somehow (I'm not there at the moment and don't have a photo) which I expect is the "chimney".

I'm afraid I'm very much technically challenged when it comes to this sort of thing so your comments are useful pointers.

Is it possible to replace this gas boiler with an electric combi boiler and, if so, is this likely to be a more cost-efficient or more expensive approach?

Many thanks again,

Dave
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Old Oct 17th 2015, 11:49 am
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Do you know if the "black hole" draught free airbricks are available in Hungary? I knew that forced extraction was a bad idea in a kitchen with a solid fuel stove but I am putting in the set-up mentioned by Peter, a gas stove and a solid fuel stove with boiler in the same room. In practice I don't expect to be using both cookers at once but as stated, they need to get air from somewhere.
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Old Oct 17th 2015, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Originally Posted by rammy100
Thanks again for your replies.

Alas, time is not on my side here and to arrange all of this before the end of the year is a bit of a stretch for me because of other commitments.

As it stands at the moment we have an electric hob/oven in the kitchen so that isn't an issue. The boiler is located in the bathroom and is used just for hot water and the central heating.

It's located close to the chimney if that's the right word here....it's actually a vent that leads up from our first floor apartment right to the roof and in some way, I guess, services all the other apartments in our part of the building.

I'm not sure if that acts as a flu though and can picture a metal tube leading from the top of the boiler up into the bathroom ceiling somehow (I'm not there at the moment and don't have a photo) which I expect is the "chimney".

I'm afraid I'm very much technically challenged when it comes to this sort of thing so your comments are useful pointers.

Is it possible to replace this gas boiler with an electric combi boiler and, if so, is this likely to be a more cost-efficient or more expensive approach?

Many thanks again,

Dave
You would have to ask a gas fitter what is possible - without seeing what is there, what chimney possibilities / issues there are and what equipment is available it is not possible to say.

Replacing a gas combi with an electric equivalent would be an expensive option. Electricity is just a shade over 3 times the price of gas per KwHour.
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Old Oct 17th 2015, 9:26 pm
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Originally Posted by fidobsa
Do you know if the "black hole" draught free airbricks are available in Hungary? I knew that forced extraction was a bad idea in a kitchen with a solid fuel stove but I am putting in the set-up mentioned by Peter, a gas stove and a solid fuel stove with boiler in the same room. In practice I don't expect to be using both cookers at once but as stated, they need to get air from somewhere.
A gas stove and a solid fuel stove with boiler in the same room is not allowed. I would be surprised if you could get a fitter to put it in. The gas company has been given the responsibility (liability?) for the safety of installations so checks and inspections can happen. The chimney sweeps (who according to the regs should check / clean every chimney once a year) also have a responsibility to ensure the chimneys are safe - but I don't know if now includes gas appliance and chimney combinations.

If you are using bottled gas whilst the regs still apply these are impossible to check as they are portable so there is no way to know where they are.

An item I heard this morning on the radio - so far this year (heating season I think) there have been 3 deaths due to CO poisoning. Last year, the article also reported, there were 12 deaths due to CO poisoning
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Old Oct 18th 2015, 6:00 am
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

The gas stove is on bottled gas as there is no mains gas supply to the property. This is a very common arrangement in rural parts of Hungary except that in most cases the stoves do not come with boilers. The sweep comes each year and has never made any comment about the gas stove or bottle. In the Croatia house I have obtained a larger gas bottle as used in the catering industry and that will be kept in the adjacent summer kitchen. As this will mean it can't be turned off at the bottle after each use I did wonder about fitting some kind of gas detector alarm.
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Old Oct 18th 2015, 7:17 am
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

Gas is really dangerous and you should follow whatever the chimney sweeps say. The best solution for a gas boiler is of course one of those that gets its fresh air from the outside and sends the CO outside too and so doesn't need a chimney - but it depends on the house whether that's possible.
We were told that the minimum requirement is at least a separate chimney for the gas boiler and the wood stove.

We also had some kind of "gas smell" in our guest apartment and our young ones almost went crazy about that so I bought a gas detector made by Honeywell which has a 10 year battery.

In the end it turned out there was a fault at the neighbour's gas meter and depending on the wind the smell came to us!

Last edited by wolfi; Oct 18th 2015 at 8:48 am.
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Old Oct 18th 2015, 8:33 am
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Default Re: New Combi-Boiler

How can you have a chimney for a gas stove? You could have a cooker hood but then you are back to forced ventilation which is not safe for the wood stove.
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