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Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

Old Sep 6th 2016, 10:03 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

That's the one, & thanks for the info. I know there are a lot of holiday places around & want village life but we do want people around.
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 8:45 am
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

That's why I tell everybody looking for a place (and did this myself 20 years ago ...):

Look around out of season, say at the end of October, see what's going on in the village when all the summer guests have gone, mayn places are closed and/or deserted ...

I've seen bars and restaurants with tables not cleared, plants going dry in their pots - looked like everyone left in a hurry ...
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

Originally Posted by stevenotlob
The agents you have just mentioned are the ones that I mentioned originally requesting a 33% deposit ! That is something that I am not willing to pay.
When I questioned the gentleman why it was so high and the response was...
"Our price includes all fees including solicitor fees.
If you want to appoint another solicitor in Hungary that is up to you,but the contracts will be done done by our appointed solicitor.
The deposit is normal as some money goes to owner and the solicitor to start work."

It would appear that 33% is NOT normal, according to other users on this forum!

Regards, Stephen
ask for a breakdown of the price what seams reasonable to a British buyer might be a vastley inflated price with the add ons
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 9:26 am
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

I think you have to be very observant GMC girl and go with your gut instinct, if you see the property with an agent, then go back and look at the area on your own at a different time of the day, check for the cleanliness of the area and if there are a lot of for sale signs (Elado) then people are selling for a reason. Exactly the same as in any other country. I have been an estate agent in UK and its exactly the same - people will have area snobbery and people will have genuine reasons for advising you away from areas. Take everything on board and look, look, look around. Do your research, which I know you have done extensively and it will all come together. We have bought in a very rural, small village South of Balaton with about 350 residents and closer to Koposvar (about 20 mins drive) and it is idealic, but that's what we were after. We can cycle to Kaposvar if we fancied it and actually for a day out we could also cycle to Balaton, concentrate on whats important to you and you will find your perfect place.
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Old Sep 7th 2016, 6:17 pm
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

It is true that some of us want a property away from the crowd, peaceful location etc...But it is worth bearing in mind amenities....Shops, postoffice, chemist, doki, dentist etc...These tend to be in or near larger villages or towns.
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 6:22 pm
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

Hello all
Some thoughts to add about Hungarian estate agencies
I am selling my house in Western Hungary (Vas county) and my agent brought a potential buyer from the UK. Before they came to see the house, my agent adivised me not to speak about the prices in Enlgish with the buyer.
When I asked him why he said that there are several agencies involved and they would all charge their commission fees.
I'm not sure if this is true or he just puts his own high commission on top of my price. Either way I suppose the actual price comes out a lot higher than where I originally set the price for my house.
This is not how it should work and how it normally works. The estate agents in Hungary have a percent based commission which the seller pays. It's usually 3 to 8 percent (I guess it can be even 10 for well known agents). The buyer doesn't pay a penny.
so before buying a property in Hungary I would advise to take a look at properties listed on Hungarian sites like ingatlan.com or ingatlanbazar.hu. I know they are in Hungarian but I'm sure you can manage your way to find some information about the normal prices. There are private listings among these also. With these agents being so greedy you may be better off hiring an interpreter and leave the agent out of the game.
About the bad areas - there are sites with maps about villages you should avoid. I'm not sure if I can share these as these are extremist sites, so please PM me if you need info on this.
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 7:11 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

Hi GMC girl. Apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread.

Have you thought about using a "buyers agent" I am not proposing anyone but will give you details if you pm me.

We found that we were literally chasing our backsides all over the country and in every possible direction.

After a particularly long and hard day I was having a few ales that evening and did a bit more homework on the internet.

I had heard about buyers agents and luckily (for us) was recommended one. After arriving back in the UK no further forward where we had been almost a year before searching for ourselves, I sent the agent a email. Terms were agreed and after a further 2 visits to Hungary during which we went to LOT of properties which had been shortlisted by the agent, we found the place we wanted.

I know we had to pay the agent, but in my opinion, that was by a very long shot the lesser of any evils. In fact, we still receive help from the agent to this very day.

I have a friend who purchased a place about 45 minutes from us who did not use a agent. They just managed with the estate agent. Everything went well for them - location and purchase wise. So its a matter of personal preference.

GBA
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Old Sep 8th 2016, 7:19 pm
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

teklovics, please pm me with maps of bad areas asap as i am in process of buying a house. Thanks
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Old Sep 9th 2016, 8:30 am
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

I think having many sale signs in an area doesn't necessarily mean that there is something wrong with it.
One reason would be area snobbery like it was previously said. But I think local people have different expectations towards the property then non-citizens.
Most of us are looking for properties with working opportunities around. Homeworking is not very common yet especially in villages.
Having many sale signs in places like these may only mean lack of workplaces in the area.
On the other hand these villages could be very suitable for someone working from home as (if they are in a good area) they are tranquil with no significant criminal activities.
So if you want a quiet place without having to worry about being robbed these small villages may be just the right choice for you.
But I agree with TheCrosbies - you have to be observant and check the area.
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Old Sep 15th 2016, 1:30 pm
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

I think the main reason why house selling appears to be a national sport, is the terrible debt accrued by so many Hungarians in very low-wage jobs, which they have little chance of settling in one lifetime. Most of them are only looking to clear their outstanding mortgages (and many were ripped-off by the Forint/ Swiss Franc charade operated by creditors). Not helping anything is also the passing down of debts to children on death of the parent, under what may be the Napoleonic influence. Coupled with assorted problems associated with very long-term debts, this accounts for a buyers market.
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Old Sep 15th 2016, 1:39 pm
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

I think the main reason why house selling appears to be a national sport, is the terrible debt accrued by so many Hungarians in very low-wage jobs, which they have little chance of settling in one lifetime. Most of them are only looking to clear their outstanding mortgages (and many were ripped-off by the Forint/ Swiss Franc mortgage charade operated by creditors). Not helping anything is also the law passing down debts to children on death of the parent, under what may be the Napoleonic influence. Coupled with assorted problems associated with very long-term debts, this accounts for a buyers market. It's all a long way from UK experiences.
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Old Sep 15th 2016, 2:38 pm
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

Not too much OT:

Yes, the idea of getting cheap loans in € or even cheaper CHF was crazy - when loans in HUF were at 30% interest (or more) - people should have realised that there must be a problem somewhere ...

I remember the story of a friend of my wife who took out such a loan - and used part of the sum to buy new computers and tv-sets for her and her children ...

After 10 years the loan was (in HUF) higher than at the start - at the end she had to sell the apartment and move back to her mother's house ...

Even here around rich Hévíz it looks as if every third house is eladó!
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Old Sep 15th 2016, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

My wife's sister's family have two sons at university. One has a car but living at home. The other living in Budapest. Eeekkkk. Can't imagine the debt they are accumulating. This Swiss Francs thing rings a bell from what I've gathered.
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Old Sep 15th 2016, 9:31 pm
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

Just IMO but the Swiss frank loans was case of gross miss-selling by the financial institutions to a population that were financially illiterate due to historical baggage. Hungary did not and does not have the consumer protection of the UK. Consider - In the UK with the PPI mis-selling the regulators (government agency) forced the banks to provide the compensation, as they did e.g. some years earlier when private pension plans were mis-sold. In Hungary the government largely assisted in a rescue package to convert the CHF loans into HUF, but the banks got off very lightly.

Hungary still has very poor consumer protection regs. which is why estate agents can mis-sell in a way that would be unthinkable / impossible in the UK. Hungary has a small claims court, actually modelled on the successful UK system, but in true Hungarian style they only took on part of the model, so you can go to the s.c. court to claim damages for faulty goods or services but all the court can award is the value of the missing goods/services. If that failure cost you additional expense the S.c. court is not able to give compensation. E.G if you order a window for a new build that is not delivered and as a result builders time is lost, completion is late and as a result rent and tenant is lost, then a few days before the s.c.court hearing the window is delivered - that's it, you have your window so no case to answer - don't ask how I know this !!! Redress would have to be before the normal court system both expensive and v. time consuming - and uncertain.

One reason for lots of houses on the market is that for years Hungary has had a falling population which in its self generates a housing surplus, another is that jobs have moved away from villages and Hungarians don't like to commute so village houses can be difficult to sell. Also for a long time loans were only available fro new build, then you could get loans for 'second-hand' houses, but these were at a higher %age, grants were available for new build but not for renovation. You may have heard about the scheme giving 10million HUF to couples having - or promising to have 3 children, (actually it is 10M free and another 10M on cheap interest) BUT this is only for new build ! (terms and conditions apply). All of this means that new houses are built whilst older houses stand empty.

Consider a family I know, grandparents on both sides had 1 child, parents had 1 child, grand parents died parents inherit, who now have 3 houses (inc. theirs) the child has his own flat, when the parents die then the child inherits 3 properties, so then has 4. This situation is not so unusual and as some of the properties are in villages with no work around, and there is no real pressure to sell (no mortgage etc.), just stick up a sign saying 'elado' and sit it out.

Above is part of the falling population problem, couple this with a lot of the young qualifieds going to work in the west means outside of Budapest and other cities property is hard to sell.
In steps the government - give 10M HUF free plus 10M cheap money on new build only which does the following
1 addresses the falling population issues
2 boosts the building industry, (classic way to kick start an economy) all on the white economy (bills needed)
3 stops young qualifieds from leaving Hungary to earn money to buy their home.

Solves (partly) some problems - but does nothing to help sell older houses in villages.

Sorry not supposed to be a rant!, just how I see it.
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Old Sep 16th 2016, 6:54 am
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Default Re: Good / Bad areas & Estate Agents !

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary
One reason for lots of houses on the market is that for years Hungary has had a falling population which in its self generates a housing surplus, another is that jobs have moved away from villages and Hungarians don't like to commute so village houses can be difficult to sell.

[...]
Thanks for posting that Peter. My fingers have been itching every time I read something about empty property being due to Roma or something similar.

There is simply massive oversupply in many rural regions. Lots of Eladó signs doesn't mean that everyone has suddenly decided to leave before some pending catastrophe not evident to outsiders occurs. It means that a steady stream of property has been placed on the market over a period of years, but without corresponding purchases. My own property was apparently empty for seven to ten years before I bought it.

This isn't unique to Hungary; there is a surplus of property in rural areas in large parts of Europe. Germany is no exception.

Looking at the age of the residents in a typical village, it's clear that the situation is unlikely to change any time soon. There is/has been rural flight on a huge scale, coupled to some extent with a natural population decline, i.e. deaths/births ratio, which in villages where most of the residents are over 60 is not exactly surprising. In my hamlet (szer) for example, there are to my knowledge ten properties. Of these, one is occupied by a couple in their late fifties; two by single women probably in their nineties; and one, for four weeks of the year, by me. The rest, as far as I know, are empty. There's absolutely nothing wrong with my hamlet. We even have mains sewerage, gas and broadband!

In the UK, rural flight is balanced to some extent by city and town dwellers moving to the country, but there are cultural and other factors at play that make this less the case in Hungary. As you say, Hungarians don't like to commute, but I think it's the more other way around: Brits see commuting almost as a national sport, whereas most Europeans (not just Hungarians) think that spending an hour or two in your car every day is just a complete waste of time. Perhaps even more significant is the cost: fuel prices are roughly on a par with those in the UK (depending upon the exchange rate), but incomes may only be a third, so fuel for commuting really eats into incomes.

Another cultural factor is the perception of rural life. I don't think Hungarians share the widespread British conception of bucolic bliss; rural life primarily means "no ameneties". They are also less likely to aspire to the status of living in a house rather than a flat. Flats are convenient, "modern", cheaper to heat, the estate agents' euphemism of the (non-existent) garden being "easily managed" actually has some truth in it.

There are significant demographics in the UK that don't exist on the same scale in Hungary. For example, early retirees with generous company pensions planning to spend the first two decades of their retirement in their country cottage. I doubt such pensions are common in Hungary, ditto early retirement. The life expectancy figures are also different. Retiring to the country typically may mean a few years' peace and quiet for a couple – followed by a decade or two of isolation for a widow.

Finally – to bring this rant to a close – I think that the immediate Balaton region is a micromarket in its own right. You don't have to travel far from the lake though to be outside that micromarket.
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