GMC girl

can some one tell me more about this type of heating ?? Is it expensive to run & how well does it heat a house? I have seen lots of houses with it in .

Am I better looking at co fired? or central heating ?

enter

GMC....we have gas central heating,that is the path we took. With sufficient house insulation minimum 10cm and double/triple glazing,modern combi boiler running showe/heating and gas hob/year we pay about £40/month scrimping on nothing. No problem.

Peter_in_Hungary

Gas convector heaters are individual room heaters, usually running on mains gas. Depending upon the type they may be balanced flue or not. Balanced flue take the combustion air from the outside otherwise the combustion air will be taken from the room. Balanced flue are safer. I would expect new(er) ones to be balanced flue. The exhaust usually goes out through the wall but can go up a chimney.

Most have a thermostat control to manage the room temperature but they can not be run by a timer or a timed thermostat.

They were installed as a cheap way to get gas heating and as an affordable way to move away from wood fired heating.

If you are looking at a house for permanent living and it has gas convectors then IMO you should budget for gas CH with a combie boiler.

The expense of heating a house is less about the efficiency of the heat source and more about the thermal efficiency of the house. (ref. enters post above).

Most Hungarian houses have v. poor insulation values. To get low cost heating you will need to draft proof or replace all doors and windows, insulate the walls with at least 10cm of insulation and put 20cm - 30cm of insulation in the loft. And then you will need to ensure adequate ventilation with either positive input ventilation (PIV) or mechanical ventilation with heat reclaim (MVHR). You can ventilate manually but with high levels of air tightness (i.e. no drafts) manual ventilation (opening windows when the place feels stuffy) is not really adequate and is wasteful of energy.

wolfi

Peter explained it nicely and I totally agree with him.
Gas convectors are/were often combined with an electric water heater -not too efficient either.

The modern combi boilers don't need a chimney - if you have a chimney you could use it for a kandalo then (i e fireplace with a glass window), very nice on a cold day , especially if you have wood from your trees. It's also a kind of backup for the case that electricity is not available for a day ...

Szeged

Do not scrimp on costs is what I would advise, on whatever you invest in, not just because you will pay twice (again in the future) by buying too cheap now, but because you have to think of the selling price - A potential buyer would more than likely want a more modern Central Heating / Boiler system (as would a lodger); unless they cannot afford C.H and/or do not mind the fire wood / convector system of course. The problem is, even in GBP, is that converting to C.H is still expensive.

scrubbedexpat142

Had a 12 year old boiler replaced 18 months ago, complete with new flue up through the roof, total cost, about £2500, so far have saved about £500, so pay back approx 7.5 years, pretty pleased with that.

GMC girl

Thank you all for the very helpful information, certainly very good advice for when viewing & narrowing down properties.

Some of our shortlist have central heating by tile stove, does this produce much heat & is it reliable?


In terms of insulation, if a roof has to be replaced, am I better to walk away?

Peter_in_Hungary

The tile stoves are efficient and can have a heat exchanger built in to run radiators but usually do not. They are large wood fired storage heater which take some time to produce heat and then having been run for some hours (meanwhile being continuously fed with wood) will give off the heat for some hours after that. There is no control over the heat output other that how long you run the fire. periodically they will need taking apart and rebuilding which is a messy and expensive job. The period depends upon how they have been used. They need to be operated properly otherwise they can be damaged.

Insulating a roof has nothing to do with the need to replace it. If a roof needs replacing this gives the opportunity to add living space into the new attic and to properly insulate as you put on the new roof. It is usual to add a concrete ring beam as part of the roof replacement and sometimes walls are extended upwards further than the ring beam height (30cm) to give more headroom. Replacing a roof is a standard procedure here but not cheap - get some quotes. The need for a new roof would be a (big) negotiating point on the price as the price almost certainly won't reflect this requirement.

More important than the roof, which is fixable with money, would be cracks in the walls which indicate subsidence or poor or non-existing foundations which is much more difficult (= expensive) to fix.

IMO adobe or mud brick aka vályogtégla should be avoided unless its very cheap and the location (which can't be fixed) is wonderful and ticks all the boxes.

GMC girl

Peter when you say properly operated, what do you mean? We had a wood & coal burning stove in Ireland which my Dad fitted & is still operating today. Do you mean cleaning etc or general wear & tear. I assume they need specialist taking apart & fixing?

We are looking at permanent so will certainly budget for both.

As for the roof, anyone got ball park figures based on experience?

Peter_in_Hungary

The tiled stoves must be run at maximum, or at most only half shut down whilst there is wood to burn in them. If they are shut down with fuel in them combustible gasses can build up in the flueways and when the door is opened the rush of air into the stove can cause the gasses to ignite and the seriously damage the stove, worst case causing it to explode. If unseasoned wood is used then the flueways can fill up with tar deposits and whilst the same will happen to a chimney it is cheap to sweep a chimney whereas a tiled stove will cost several hundred pounds to take apart and clean. Once the fuel has been burnt then the stove should be shut down to stop air flow through the stove so that the stored heat goes into the room. If you say go to bed with some fuel still burning and so leave the stove controls open then when the fuel is spent the air flow will continue and all your stored heat will go up the chimney and be wasted.

The tiled stoves are wood fired storage heaters. The time between expensive rebuilding will depend upon both how the stove has been used and the quality of the original build. It is not possible to predict when a rebuild will be needed and the adage that if it ain't broke don't fix it applies, but indicators that a rebuild is needed would be difficulty lighting - smoke coming into the room - and smoke leaking from the spaces between the tiles on start up.

If you buy a house with one of these and then change all the doors and windows for nice new ones you will have problems unless provision is made for an air supply. Under the current gas regulations you can not have one of these stove (or another stove where the combustion air is taken from the house) if you have a gas cooker in the same air space. Internal doors do not separate air spaces. The current gas regs. will apply as soon as you make a change to any existing gas appliance. (e.g. a new gas cooker, which will have to be installed by an authorised fitter) Balanced flue appliances will be OK.

GMC girl

Peter, again thank you so much for sharing your valuable knowledge with us. I really had no idea that they could be so problematic . I guess we could keep them as a feature & still have GCH to heat the property.

Peter_in_Hungary

They are not problematic - when they are used as intended. Wood burning is a lifestyle whereas gas CH is akin to having electric lights.

By the way the gas regs in Hungary are quite strict in terms of what is acceptable because every year there are 3 or so families killed by CO poisoning due to faulty gas heaters and/or faulty flues. One at the beginning of last winter in a neighbouring village where the windows were replaced which stopped the drafts. Unfortunately the drafts provided the ventilation that stopped the gas heater becoming a problem. With the drafts gone the CO built up and over night killed 2 out of the 4 family members. Gas fitters are required to know the regs. and the issues. Unfortunately window fitters do not need to know the issues that can arise from stopping the drafts.

GMC girl

Much needed regs by the sounds of it. I would be happy to use them, but will certainly look to gch as an option.

scrubbedexpat142

I was very pleased with the independent inspection & certification process when we had our new boiler & flue installed.