stevenotlob

Good day all. I know there has been another thread on setting up a campsite but that is now old and so I thought I should start another one.
Basically, I have an option on over 13,000 sq.m of land (currently 20% vineyard and the rest is rough land). I was considering opening a campsite there but before I make an offer I need to know the law and regulations on doing so.
Opening and running a campsite is not a problem for us. We are OK financially as we have some private income each month and when i retire I will also have my military pension and private pensions too.
I just need to know how to apply / who to apply to for change of use of land, best places for building materials and trusted contractors (North end of Zala county). Also, I hear that the tax system is a bit 'over-bearing'. I am also a qualified book-keeper so is there anywhere / anyone to point me in the right direction for more easy-to-understand info for filling out business tax returns?
I'm sure I will have a lot more requests soon but for now, that will do :-)

Thanks. Steve

p.s - should have also added that we intend to keep hens, ducks, rabbits and possibly llama and sheep (if we get the option to buy the adjacent 11,000 sq.m of land). So any info on laws affecting this would be great. we intend to use / sell the eggs to guests (and also raise broilers for meat too) and also run a 'petting zoo'.

stargate1234

I Suggest you go to your local 'Önkormányzat Hivatal' (Council Offices) which your land is registered with.
You might find it beneficial to have a meeting with your Mayor and explain to him your proposals. He will then tell you if your idea is feesable in his area , or indeed wanted. I am sure he will then point you in the right direction to get the ball rolling for planning permission , plans etc.....

I am quite sure you will need to apply for 'change of use' of your land which could be costly as 20% is vineyards.

Here in Pest megy the local Járási Hivatal (District Office)is where you get planning permission. It might be different though where you are !..

Steve.

stevenotlob

Many thanks Stargate. All info is much appreciated. When you say change of use is expensive, do you have any idea of costs? Thanks

stargate1234

My neighbour bought a piece of land that had grapes on it. He changed use to build a small house on it. The land was appox 700 sq metres. To take out the grapes cost him about 200,000ft as he needed permission to cease the grapes and then change use to build.
Vineyards and Forestry carry these costs if you need to change.
I should add, this is Pest county. It could possibly be different where you are.

Just to add one point, (without being condesending) its very important to know what your land is registered for. If its Zart Kert its cheaper as you can only build a certain % on it. I think its 3%.
Then you have farmland, Kültéri, Beltéri plots. These are Exterior and intérior plots to a village or town. The interior plots are more expensive and sought-after.

In short it can be a mine field. You have to pay for eveything out here. The house building has come to a halt because the costs involved make it not a viable proposition for many.. Permission for just about everything is needed and if you need permission then you need to pay for it.

Not to be too pesimistic though, you can worm your way through it all with time a patience.

wolfi

Living near Hévíz I can tell you that there are many empty campsites around here ...

Anyway Hungarian bureaucracy is a minefield - planning permissions, water and sewage etc ...

You should look for an experet - any advice we can give you might not be enough.

PS:
Just drive through Felsöpáhok and from Alsopáhok to Hévíz - you'll see several empty campsites, even though business in Hévíz is booming!

Though relatives of mine visited a Nudist campsite on the Balaton which seems to prosper:
Balatontourist - Balaton camping: Balatontourist Camping Naturist Berény, Balatonberény
PS:

There's also a small Nudist site in the woods, though I don't know how it's doing (Germans are running it imho):
Startseit - Angela Farm Naturista Camping (nudist fkk) & Bungalowpark & Pool- massage

Peter_in_Hungary

I would agree the wolfi about empty camp sites, also the tourist season is very short, basicly summer school holidays, although it is longer at Hévíz, being a health spa but IMO the people who go the the health spa will not be campers.

One point to consider is that if the land is agricultural you will not be allowed to buy it unless you are a registered land user. In order to become such you will need a recognised, acceptable, agricultural qualification or be able to prove you have been engaged in agriculture for at least 3 years. Without being a registered land user you are limited to a maximum of 1ha

Unless you read and write Hungarian well you will not be able to cope with the bureaucracy, which can generally be described as horrendous.

wolfi

Yes, Peter, even around Hévíz the camping seson is short! Interestingly enough the small site between Alsopáhok and Hévíz (the largeer one which also offered wooden "villas" has been closed for several years now) has just a few caravans now - because it is too hot for camping in summer!

Re bureaucracy:

My wife used to work in the Mayor's office somewhere in Eastern Hungary in Socialist times and later - the stories she can tell are unbelievable!

So be very careful!

stevenotlob

Many thanks for all the replies. I must admit that I am surprised at so much bureaucracy, I would have thought former eastern bloc countries would have welcomed inward investment, no matter how small, with open arms.
So I guess land over 10,000 sq.m is going to be out of the question, which means that the whole idea may not be financially viable.
I know there are many sites that are under 10,000 sq.m but I would imagine they struggle to make a living from it unless they can somehow extend their season.
Do you know if static caravans / log cabins are popular there or is mostly touring caravans / motorhomes and tents?
It would be a shame not to give it a go due to a lot of red tape

Thanks again, Stephen

stargate1234

True to say that the tourist volume at Lake Balaton these days is down. It became as expensive as going on holiday to Croatia or greece, so many people went/go abroad, however I had a weekend camping break at Balatonkali a couple of weeks ago and it was quite full.
If, like Wolfi states, campsites are closed or empty then you might want scratch your head on the feesability of your project....

However,......Local council/planning offices would be my first move in conjunction with an english speaking solicitor. He/they will put you in the picture regarding your project.

stevenotlob

Thanks again stargate. I guess I will be having a trip to Hungary in a few weeks then! :-)
It will give me a chance to have a look at a couple of other properties that have recently come on the market too.

stargate1234

Your Welcome Steve.

fidobsa

Would it be worth going to one of the empty campsites and making them an offer to purchase? If you advertise more widely, extend the season and find inovative ways to make the site attractive I think you could do well. I know a British chap who runs a campsite in Bulgaria and he does well because he puts the effort in to make people want to keep coming back.

wolfi

Not too much OT:

After the fall of "Socialism" many people thaught they were in heaven now ...

Tourists wanted more luxury - not shared bathrooms ...

And many went to see other counties where they could not go before - now some are returning (In Hévíz eg you hear many East Germans) - but they also want some luxury, so all inclusive hotels where you also can walk in your bathrobe from your room to the spa are well booked, while the apartments are often standing empty.

My wife has friends and all of them are complaining (like our neighbour) that their rooms are maybe rented for a few weeks a year.

I know one family in Hévíz who bucked that trend with their apartment house, but it wasn't cheap:

They built a heated outside pool and a bar besides it, the rooms have electronic locks (no more keys), the cards also open the electric garage door, air condition of course - and the list goes on ...

For a camp site all that would probably prohibitevly expensive - so the idea of going around visiting some sites (occupied and empty ones ...) is probably the best thing!

When we drive to town we also see empty hotels, restaurants etc - it's really a pity, but the competition is hard, you have to be very good and/or give your guests something special!

For us customers that's not bad - the restaurants that we visit eg are wonderful!

stevenotlob

Is there no Tourism Ministry? I must admit I've never seen a Tourist Advert for Hungary. They need to place adverts on main TV stations in their neighbouring countries and UK TV. No use just sitting back and 'hope' tourists come to the country.
Newspaper articles, appropriate glossy magazines, etc. It's not just hotels / campsites /etc that are in competition with each other, but also individual countries too!
I would expect that the exodus of young, working individuals and families to other EU countries for better paid jobs hasn't helped too. Whole villages have been devastated in Bulgaria and I imagine Romania and Hungary face similar problems.

blackwaterman

I too, remain baffled by lack of Government enthusiasm to 'spread the tourist load' around the country a bit more. My Hungarian partner tells me that decades ago, there was a much larger semi-permanent, cosmopolitan population especially in cities like Debrecen (university students), and there were many, many more British around than nowadays. I believe there's a current drive to boost spending on tourism, although still largely focused on Budapest. Even the Balaton hasn't developed enough to have a permanently open, reliable commercial airport. That and Hajduszoboszlo spa seem to be the most well-known, obvious tourist magnets, although there's plenty of competition from other locations.
To me, it seems a blindingly obvious thing to do to boost the economy, but it's all part of the Hungarian paradox, I suppose. The curse of capitalism and its excesses extends quite slowly in former Eastern bloc countries, which can be a good or bad thing depending upon your own views.