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Old May 24th 2007, 2:34 pm   #1
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Default D'Costa Palms, Siolim

Hi

I have purchased one of the off plan apartments in this development. The ownership issues are very scary; should I be worried. I plan to move in late 2008 and use it as a twice annual bolt hole initially. The flat is 2 beds totally 102 square metres and will need furnishing. Anybody any ideas about furniture and please quash my worries about ownership. I have gone through Churchills International on the Isle of Wight.

Thanks
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Old May 24th 2007, 3:02 pm   #2
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

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Originally Posted by dickylewis View Post
Hi

I have purchased one of the off plan apartments in this development. The ownership issues are very scary; should I be worried. I plan to move in late 2008 and use it as a twice annual bolt hole initially. The flat is 2 beds totally 102 square metres and will need furnishing. Anybody any ideas about furniture and please quash my worries about ownership. I have gone through Churchills International on the Isle of Wight.

Thanks
Hi Dicky, welcome to BE, I would read all the recent threads and then log on to India mike, "owning property in India". I would also suggest that you log onto the RBI site and study that.
Questions if you don't mind answering:
1) Are you of Indian Origin or are you a Foreign National (AngloSaxon origin etc)
2) Presumably you have purchased this property while you are resident in this country. Or were you resident in India
3) Is it a lease agreement or an outright purchase in your name
4) Have you set up a company to purchase this property
5) Have you set up a bank account in India
6) Have you transferred any funds as at this time
7) Did you get your own Solicitor
If you don't want to answer, that is OK, my suggestions for reading still stand. You will note that some people show serious concerns and some people are less concerned. If you are a person of Indian Origin you should not have too many problems
regards
Tony
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Old May 24th 2007, 3:31 pm   #3
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickylewis View Post
Hi

I have purchased one of the off plan apartments in this development. The ownership issues are very scary; should I be worried. I plan to move in late 2008 and use it as a twice annual bolt hole initially. The flat is 2 beds totally 102 square metres and will need furnishing. Anybody any ideas about furniture and please quash my worries about ownership. I have gone through Churchills International on the Isle of Wight.

Thanks

Hi dicky,

I you are a foreign national, the ownership issues arent that scary , they are clearly and simply laid out in the english language, in a piece of legislation called FEMA.

This legislation quite simply says that FNs cannot buy/sell/transfer immovable property in india, unless they are both resident and have purpose and intention to stay. In practice this means that you must have the appropriate visa ( not tourist) and a piece of paper from the FRO with residential permit written on it.

If you are a foreign national and you arent currently resident, ( or were not resident at the time of purchase) you cant own property in india and havnt ever been able to. It is also unlikely that you ever will be able to. What is scary about that?

If you have other status, ie pio or nri please disregard the above.

regards

douglas
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Old May 24th 2007, 4:16 pm   #4
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

Thanks to Douglas and Tony

To elaborate on my situation. I am pretty much 100% Welsh (so pretty Celtic I suppose). I purchased the property through Churchill International and have so far paid 50% of the £24K price. I believe I will be buying it out right as opposed to soem from of rental agreement. I intend to use it as a holiday home to spend the winter periods when I finally retire ( I am currently 48!). I am not looking for a huge financial gain when I sell / dispose of it and just hope to enjoy a quiet palce in the sun.
Do yo think it would be of any benefit to try to set up any sort of company to own it or could I exist in the "no mans land" of not owning the property for the long term.
Would appreciate comments.
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Old May 24th 2007, 4:48 pm   #5
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

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Originally Posted by dickylewis View Post
Thanks to Douglas and Tony

To elaborate on my situation. I am pretty much 100% Welsh (so pretty Celtic I suppose). I purchased the property through Churchill International and have so far paid 50% of the £24K price. I believe I will be buying it out right as opposed to soem from of rental agreement. I intend to use it as a holiday home to spend the winter periods when I finally retire ( I am currently 48!). I am not looking for a huge financial gain when I sell / dispose of it and just hope to enjoy a quiet palce in the sun.
Do yo think it would be of any benefit to try to set up any sort of company to own it or could I exist in the "no mans land" of not owning the property for the long term.
Would appreciate comments.
Hi again dicky,

You havnt stated your visa position, but we presume it is tourist, you have confirmed that you are a FN.

So, to repeat myself, you cannot as FN individual buy or sell immovable property in india on a tourist visa. You cannot in practice form a ltd co as a shell to buy property in india either.

You could continue to exist in no mans land, if you are happy with settling for for an invalid sales agreement and realise that in practice you have no right to the property. The developer will continue to hold both the freehold and your money in that case. The risks are obviously massive .

You have two choices as i see it, either pull out now, or ask the developer to sign a 5 year lease ( the max you are entitled to under FEMA as a non resident FN) Thats a pretty expensive 5 years of holidays. The developer may or may not renew the lease in year 5 at his discretion.

Sorry , but you are in the same position as hundreds of other brits who havnt done their homework.


regards

douglas
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Old May 24th 2007, 5:38 pm   #6
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickylewis View Post
Hi

I have purchased one of the off plan apartments in this development. The ownership issues are very scary; should I be worried. I plan to move in late 2008 and use it as a twice annual bolt hole initially. The flat is 2 beds totally 102 square metres and will need furnishing. Anybody any ideas about furniture and please quash my worries about ownership. I have gone through Churchills International on the Isle of Wight.

Thanks
Hi,

Have a look at www.indiamike.com. Property in India Page 3 8th May thread 301 by Noni, who although followed the rules, bought an apartment on a five year x-visa, had her deeds registered and then has received a letter from the Directorate of Enforcement. I am lead to believe that quite a few other people have received these letters.

Anyway, if you have paid, unfortunately you are in the same position as the rest of us. We all just wish that people would take heed of our experiences.

Good luck anyway.
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Old May 24th 2007, 7:08 pm   #7
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

Mate (dickylewis)...

Get your cash back.

Quickly please....

Read all these threads.


Keith

:curse:
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Old May 24th 2007, 8:14 pm   #8
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

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Originally Posted by dickylewis View Post
Thanks to Douglas and Tony

To elaborate on my situation. I am pretty much 100% Welsh (so pretty Celtic I suppose). I purchased the property through Churchill International and have so far paid 50% of the £24K price. I believe I will be buying it out right as opposed to soem from of rental agreement. I intend to use it as a holiday home to spend the winter periods when I finally retire ( I am currently 48!). I am not looking for a huge financial gain when I sell / dispose of it and just hope to enjoy a quiet palce in the sun.
Do yo think it would be of any benefit to try to set up any sort of company to own it or could I exist in the "no mans land" of not owning the property for the long term.
Would appreciate comments.
I have an email from Churchill.
The paragraph on Buying says.

What is the buying process?

Anybody can buy property in Goa except for some restrictions e.g. Parkistan, Bangladesh and such.

The usual system here (when buying from builders) is that you buy from an offsite plan and are given an 'agreement to buy' contract. You don't have to do any residency requirements for that. This contract has no limit time wise and is valid until you are ready to complete your sale deed. This contract is purely between the builder and buyer and is on legal stamped paper which gives full ownershiprights to the buyer until they decide to complete their sale deeds.

The completion of sale deed is about registering your ownership with the registrar (government) and to do this you must have completed over 182 days residency the previous tax year (April to March) the 182 days does not have to be consecutive. Or...... you can buy property be setting up a business in India and buying on the company name. You do not have to have the residency requirements to buy that way. You must make sure that you have obtained a business visa before you complete the sale deeds on the company name.

It is a fairly easy procedure to set up a company by making an appointment with a chartered accountant here. There are certain tourist related businesses which can be set up with full foreign ownership of the company. For any other business you must have an Indian partner who holds 51% of the ownership of the company. (end copy extract from Churchill e-mail)

.................................................. .............................................
I can advise you that PROPERTY REGISTRY OFFICE has indefinately put on hold all applications for the registration of freeholds i.e. Sale Deeds pertaining to foreign nationals of non Indian origin (even if they have the 182 days stay in the previous fiscal year qualification) till these are screened by the Home Department of the Goa Central Government.

FEMA provisions do not contain any reference to type of visa, so the statements in the press that foreign nationals on tourist visas cannot purchase (the freehold) do not have any legal basis, according to reputed legal advisors in Goa.

I personally would rather take notice of some of the knowledgable people on this websit and www.indiamike.com than statements from any of these builders or estate agents.

I think that unfortunately you will have to sit it out now like the rest of us seeing that you have paid your money. I definately would not advise anybody to part with their hard earned money at this particular time, for some of us it is too late.
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Old May 25th 2007, 2:56 am   #9
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

Hi Noni,


[I]FEMA provisions do not contain any reference to type of visa, so the statements in the press that foreign nationals on tourist visas cannot purchase (the freehold) do not have any legal basis, according to reputed legal advisors in Goa.

I just want to raise an important point on the above quote from the reputed legal advisors. FEMA does not contain any reference to visa type that is true, but importantly, it does state that a FN has to be resident in order to transfer immovable property and then goes on to define residency.

None of the conditions of residency can be fulfilled on a tourist visa. So a tourist simply does not have the legal capacity to sign a sales agreement. In fact under FEMA FNs are expressly prohibited from the act of property transfer, unless they can fulfill the residency conditions.

Tourists cannot purchase motor vehicles either, as they are expressly prohibited from doing so under another act.

There are good reasons why the indian authorities impose these restrictions and they quite rightly take exception , when foreigners ignore or avoid them.

Once again its what the contract or the lawyers dont say that is important.

Kind regards

douglas
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Old May 25th 2007, 4:08 am   #10
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

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Originally Posted by Douglas M View Post
Hi Noni,


[I]FEMA provisions do not contain any reference to type of visa, so the statements in the press that foreign nationals on tourist visas cannot purchase (the freehold) do not have any legal basis, according to reputed legal advisors in Goa.

I just want to raise an important point on the above quote from the reputed legal advisors. FEMA does not contain any reference to visa type that is true, but importantly, it does state that a FN has to be resident in order to transfer immovable property and then goes on to define residency.

None of the conditions of residency can be fulfilled on a tourist visa. So a tourist simply does not have the legal capacity to sign a sales agreement. In fact under FEMA FNs are expressly prohibited from the act of property transfer, unless they can fulfill the residency conditions.

Tourists cannot purchase motor vehicles either, as they are expressly prohibited from doing so under another act.

There are good reasons why the indian authorities impose these restrictions and they quite rightly take exception , when foreigners ignore or avoid them.

Once again its what the contract or the lawyers dont say that is important.

Kind regards

douglas
Hi all,

Below is just another example of the very clear and succinct information that is available from RBI to all FNs regarding property purchase in india. The document concerned is master circular RBI /2006-/07/20. I have underlined the salient phrase.


5.2 Foreign nationals of non-Indian origin resident outside India are not permitted to acquire any immovable property in India unless such property is acquired by way of inheritance from a person who was resident in India.


douglas
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Old May 25th 2007, 8:42 am   #11
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickylewis View Post
Hi

I have purchased one of the off plan apartments in this development. The ownership issues are very scary; should I be worried. I plan to move in late 2008 and use it as a twice annual bolt hole initially. The flat is 2 beds totally 102 square metres and will need furnishing. Anybody any ideas about furniture and please quash my worries about ownership. I have gone through Churchills International on the Isle of Wight.

Thanks
hii dicky i have purchased a villa just down the same road as dcosta, i was looking at them in april ,when i was out there; it,s a nice complex. my villa is192 sq meteres, cost 65k, took out a 5 year lease for now,i am also 48, i will also will be using it as a expensive holiday home for my self ,and freinds and family. we didnt buy it to make money out of it,we love goa so i,ll just stick it out ,and see what happens.if we ever want to sell there are ways round it. hoping to go in november,to sort furniture, ac , ect, my villa is due for completion in march 08. see you karl & jenny
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Old May 25th 2007, 9:32 am   #12
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

Karl

Nice to know I am not in a boat by myself so to speak. I have spoken to Churchills (UK developer) this morning to express worries; he is investigating. Like you I just want a place in the sun and am not in it for capital gain however it would be nice to know that the local builder is not going to turn up in 5 years with a bulldozer!
I will be in GOA for two weeks from 26 Nov to buy furniture also; may be could meet up to conspire over a beer! Do you have any ideas where you will be getting furniture?
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Old May 25th 2007, 9:46 am   #13
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

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Hi Noni,


[I]FEMA provisions do not contain any reference to type of visa, so the statements in the press that foreign nationals on tourist visas cannot purchase (the freehold) do not have any legal basis, according to reputed legal advisors in Goa.

I just want to raise an important point on the above quote from the reputed legal advisors. FEMA does not contain any reference to visa type that is true, but importantly, it does state that a FN has to be resident in order to transfer immovable property and then goes on to define residency.

None of the conditions of residency can be fulfilled on a tourist visa. So a tourist simply does not have the legal capacity to sign a sales agreement. In fact under FEMA FNs are expressly prohibited from the act of property transfer, unless they can fulfill the residency conditions.

Tourists cannot purchase motor vehicles either, as they are expressly prohibited from doing so under another act.

There are good reasons why the indian authorities impose these restrictions and they quite rightly take exception , when foreigners ignore or avoid them.

Once again its what the contract or the lawyers dont say that is important.

Kind regards

douglas
Hi, Douglas,
I am behind you all the way - I was just showing extracts from e-mails I have received from Churchills and Acron.

I know of Advocates who say, you CAN buy on a tourist Visa. I know of those who say you can't.

IT IS THE POOR PEOPLE WANTING TO PURCHASE THAT DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS THE WAY FORWARD WITH ALL THE CONFLICTING ADVISE.

IT IS TOO LATE FOR US - BUT PERHAPS WE CAN HELP OTHERS NOT TO PART WITH THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY.

WE CAN BUT TRY.
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Old May 25th 2007, 9:57 am   #14
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

hi dicky there are loads of funiture stores in pajim ,shop around barter your prices,and they always give you discount. some stores even told us we can bring pictures from the u.k. and they can can copy the designs,to your speck. we havent decided what date we are going in november yet,depends on work,coz we want to go in march/ april for 4/5 weeks.it would be nice to meet up for a beer. have you been to goa before. we have been 6 times ,we have a few freinds whom,own propertys out there, and they go for 6 month periods. we love it cant wait to take possesion of are villa,and enjoy it. see you karl
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Old May 25th 2007, 10:04 am   #15
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Default Re: D'Costa Palms, Siolim

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Originally Posted by noni View Post
Hi, Douglas,
I am behind you all the way - I was just showing extracts from e-mails I have received from Churchills and Acron.

I know of Advocates who say, you CAN buy on a tourist Visa. I know of those who say you can't.

IT IS THE POOR PEOPLE WANTING TO PURCHASE THAT DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS THE WAY FORWARD WITH ALL THE CONFLICTING ADVISE.

IT IS TOO LATE FOR US - BUT PERHAPS WE CAN HELP OTHERS NOT TO PART WITH THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY.

WE CAN BUT TRY.
Hi Noni,

I know you and others are trying to help.

Regarding conflicting advice, newbies just read FEMA, all the answers are there.

I have set up a new thread for those who are still in denial, even after having had the whole thing clearly explained to them by experienced FNs.

Hopefully there will be less wasting of time now.

kind regards

douglas
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