k800mer

I have just read the last few posts. I think you are both wrong and both right about some things. I rarely go to Baga beach anymore as it is now too busy for my taste but all these visitors have a right to go there if they wish wherever they are from but unfortunately too many of the visitors get very drunk, throw bottles around so there is lots of broken glass in the sand making it unsafe for children to play in and in addition some of them defecate in public areas, my grandchildren saw a man doing this at the side of the road last February, they were amused but it not only is unsightly but it spreads disease. There is also the litter problem and yes Bipat some European people do litter but most don't and if you saw the difference in the state of our resort when a lot of Indian nationals are staying there and when it mainly occupied by Europeans you would realise that the main mess makers are the Indian nationals, even some of the richer Indians just throw their rubbish on the ground presumably because they are used to having servants to clean up after them but they leave their servants at home when they come to Goa (except for the nanny).

Bipat

Just looking through this thread this evening, wondering where all the previous posters had disappeared to when noticed your post.
I think the problem with North Goa (along with local Government gross
maladministration) is that European tourists believe it is some sort of 'bubble' not actually part of India.
What you call "Indian nationals" are from many disparate states/cities that have different economic levels and with different degrees of modernity. Many people themselves will have progressed over the past 60 years from abject poverty to having enough, (and often a great deal) of disposable income to travel.
They have not always developed any sophisticated level of behaviour. They are attracted to what they read about the easy access to alcohol and visions of girls in bikinis, completely new experiences for many
More respectable Indian people have exactly the same opinions as yourself and avoid these areas, if going to Goa for holidays or temple visits avoid these northern beaches.

Is this the first time your grandchildren have seen an Indian person defaecate in public?? In India??? where have you been????

PS (OH, hearing my remarks about the present state of North Goa, (having read descriptions here) wants to spend a few days there, he wants to see the changes (after about 20 years). Which would be the best place for authentic Goan food??? I am thinking Candolim??)

davidhendry

Bipat, a restaurant in Glasgow, ( Kohinoor?? ) has beautiful Goan food!!

Happy new year.

Davie.

chrisjolly

Some of what you say is true but it is a complete overgeneralisation of the situation. There are many foreign tourists who just think they are coming for the beach, the fun and the experience. It's not a bubble! There are also many well to do Indians from outside Goa who come to enjoy the marvellous resorts in the north. Check out Goa Dream Stays - Exculsive Holidays in Goa and see for yourself the beautiful places you can stay in the north.
There is nowhere better for authentic Goan food than Margaridas in Margoa. Most tourist restaurants don't even serve sopatel, xacuti or fish curry rice!

I would like you to meet some of my very respectable friends who come here from Dehli, Mumbai and Kerala.

I think you have a very warped opinion of Goa, the people and the tourists.

Bipat

Chris, I think you have misunderstood my post. I don't have an opinion of North Goa I am just repeating what I read on this forum!! On and on complaints about "domestic" tourists, as though they were some sort of identical 'clones' behaving like animals, which certainly irritates me. I was trying to explain why some behave badly and that it is not general.

We haven't visited the north coast for about 20 years. So OH wants to see for himself what it is now like. What Goan relatives we have, live in mid Goa or Panjim, I must say they also complain that "there are no Goans left in Goa" probably exaggerating.

As our home is in Karwar, Margao is a regular haunt for shopping etc. but we don't often eat there. Relatives from other areas tend to visit the South as they include us on their visit itinerary which usually includes a trip to the family temples in Ponda or Gokarna. (They are all respectable, hopefully PJ and K800 would agree)

chrisjolly

Sorry I did misunderstand your post. Many young Goans do work abroad but there are still many who live and work here very happily. Some people behave badly everywhere in the world and in our experience it is mainly the Brits..now I am generalising!

Bipat

Thanks, yes you are right, bad behaviour can be everywhere.
Happy New Year.

prestonjohn

Every place i have traveled to in India over the past 25 years has a garbage problem but the biggest problem is corruption. Money is allocated but it disappears.Being an environmentalist in urban India must be nightmare. My wife and i have taken a break this year,just donated all our fixtures and fittings to a friend and we are going to Tenerife for a month. We just got so fed up with burning plastic and watching educated Indians arriving in the complex in huge suvs and then just throwing the rubbish out of the door and walking away despite their being bins just yards away !Yes its their country and their garbage and they can keep it too.

Bipat

As with most things my experiences have been different to yours!! Some places we have visited fit your description, certainly not all!!
Would agree the area around Dabolim is very bad.

Yes, agree with your view on corruption, so do most people that is why there has been a change in government by an overwhelming majority.

Agree that many Indian people have not acquired a 'take your litter home philosophy', as shown by the examples of people risking their lives throwing stuff out of train doors.

Essentially litter is a human problem not an Indian people problem.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=li...L&ved=0CEcQsAQ

Your final point --We are very happy to keep it!!! (the country that is).

prestonjohn

Stop being an apologist for people who should know better Bipat.India ia not isolated from the rest of the universe.Pollution is a global problem.The problem in India is that every state has different approaches to the problem.We both know its dangerous to burn plastics.PCBs get into your blood stream and they attack your immune system and trigger cancers.In India apathy rules.Ignorance, apathy and greed the three plagues of India.If Modi can change that i will personally kiss his fat arse and thats a promise...

Bipat

You seem to have made use of the country for 20 years!! What took you so long to stop visiting???
I don't think Mr Modi will welcome your advances

prestonjohn

Mostly Sinusitis Bipat...! Every year for the last 3 years i have developed very severe Sinusitis in Goa.Its the continual battle against dust on the roads and building work around where we live in Arpora.Its either diesel and dust on the road and lime dust from the building construction work.My Doctor advised me to keep away and up to now it has not erupted here in London. I have to pop back next year to Delhi but we intend to visit The Kulu Valley anyway for a short trip.I know Delhi is horribly polluted but i can jst fly in and get the train to Chandigar immediately.The wedding is taking place in a farm house outside Delhi. No its just Sinusitis.....and old age too.

Bipat

I think you missed the point of my previous question, why---with your very negative views of India and its people do you keep visiting?????

Do you use air con? Could that be part of your sinus problem. We don't have air con at home in Karwar but if staying in a hotel in Goa and switch it on, I always get 'heavy' head and blocked nose.
OH has an opposite problem --chilblains if we are in UK for Christmas!!!
Old age, yes both of us

prestonjohn

My fascination with India started in my childhood.My father served in India during the war. My grandfather served in Mesopotamia(Iraq) with the Indian Army in the first one.I have always been interested in The Great Mutiny 1855 to 1857.Goa was always a place to put your feet up.Modern Indian History starts in the old Central provinces and the Presidencies of Madras, Calcutta & Bombay.
Goa was always a place to read and wonder in.....when it used to be quiet that was.Im more interested in old buildings and old people than whats happening today, especially with that lot from the saffron surge who mostly distort history to their own ends.Kolkotta is perhaps the most interesting city in India though.
Absolutely fascinating the Bengalis are very literate, theatre and writing....will go back there though. But as for Goa its best to take to leave alone now that its just become a suburb of Mumbai.

Bipat

I think you view Indian history from the point of view of the British rulers. For Indigenous Indian people it was somewhat different and now things have moved on. To those of the Southern states Bengalis tend to be thought of as somewhat outsiders (by their choice --Bengalis first -Indians second). Must say rels. who worked in Kolkata always look back with pleasure at their time there, we only visited briefly, I just remember the long train journeys to get there -all of us in the 3 tier!!
We will always go to Goa as it is 'next door', but probably spend less time there now. I dislike Mumbai, also Pune but others disagree with me there. Much of the ancient literature, libraries etc. of Goa were destroyed by the Portuguese, temples were rebuilt but other stuff lost for ever..