eurotramp

We have lived 5 years in Holland, but I liked it. It was only a 15 min drive over to Germany.
I think they were the best 5 years out of all of the moves so far.
The 3 years in Mons/Shape were the worst. We also did not enjoyed the last 4 years over here.
The money in shape would have been amazing as well and Nato would have paid for the kids to go to uni her in England..but its just money and does not make you happier.
In the USA we could have bought a big house by the beach which pool and all but our oldest is 15 almost 16 and I dont see any benefit in letting her finish the last 2 years of her education in the USA.

If the kids would be still in primary school I would have give it a go, but I feel its a bit to late now.
Not so keen on the US anyhow.
Its time the family comes first for once and not the job.

Jamsco

Excellent. I find it intriguing that the thread talks of these three countries as the choices, as they match my situation exactly!

I am British and have a strong interest in moving to Canada or Australia, both have strong points - I have visited Canada and liked it but Australia may be better career wise (similar system to my line of work here in the UK). I have also always been interested in Germany and want to live there at some point, even for a short while.

My partner is German and our son half/half, so that would make it easier to integrate. However, she is also keen on Australia but not so much Canada (too close to the US: here real dream destination!).

We are looking in to all options just now and it's possibly heading for a two way split with 1) UK & Australia first, 2) Germany and 3) Canada!

Forres

I would pick Germany any day.

Its been many years since I lived in Germany, from 1988 to 1992 but have lived in a few other coutries since. I do wish I had stayed on in Germany.

My experience on Australia- Well in general the Ozzies are a friendly bunch and very sociable. If you are into life style then Oz is the place to be. Howerever, I found a lot of beaurocracy similar to 1960's or 1970's Britain. It was very old fashioned.
The place I lived was Perth and I think it struggled a bit with infrastructure. For example, if they hosted a major event such as the Air Show or even Australia Day they could not cope. You could go into town for a night out but never be able to get a Taxi home. There just is'nt enough.
I found Australia to be fine over all but, but very expensive and the tax was terrible. If you dont come from the English speaking world, like my wife, then it can be a bit of a struggle and people may look down at you.

Maria_747

I have never been to Australia but most who I know have gone love it, only a few have hated it. I have been to Canada (Ontario and Quebec ) quite a few times and Germany alot more (Frankfurt, Koblenz, Wiesbaden, Koln and Dusseldorf) for summer holidays in the 1980s and early 1990s.I have my Canadian Permanent residence visa now, contemplating the move to Toronto in April, than my cousin comes back from Germany and its got me thinking again. I liked them both but its North American living V European living whichever suits the individual. I like both and its hard to choose.

Canada- people are friendly, good healthcare, good economy, good standard of living, good scenery, low crime rate. It maybe cheaper for some things except car insurance.
Germany - has more or less the same as the above, don't know about the crime rate but you have access to travelling to more countries and you get more holidays, good pension, everything seems to be very well orgainsed, when you buy a product, you know its good value for money. Also it has abit more culture than Canada

My cousin has just come back from her xmas holidays from Munich and falllen in love with it, she also went to Inglostatt and Eichstatt. She has rekindled my interest in Germany again. She loves Munich as a livable city. She is thinking or visiting it in the summer for a possible relocation, she is in IT technology industry.

Just wondering is Munich very cosmopolitan like Frankfurt and is it very expensive to live compared to Wiesbadan (I love that place) and Mainz ?
Which German city comes close to London as far as a cosmopolitan city?
I heard Berlin is good but its too far from alot of places. ?
Also, is Germany more expensive than London in terms of daily living ?

Cheers

Assanah

Germany doesn't have good pensions. I'll expect that they will keep raising retirement age and lowering pension benefits. Right now it is 67 and they talk about 68 and I am sure it will be higher once I am there . Not many people in my age expect more than a basic pension from the government. Future is going to be tough - especially for the younger generation that finance the generous benefits for their parents, while raising their families and trying to put some extra money aside. I am also not sure how the future of the Euro will be!

That said, Munich is a great city with very good quality of life - you will need a well paid job though because Munich is expensive for German standards. Southern Germany is very beautiful! I love it there. Even the smaller towns have a great offer in cultural activities.
Berlin is cheaper than Munich, but it has a lot of unemployment. So finding a job there might be difficult. Unemployment is over 12% in Berlin but only 4% in Bavaria. Berlin is good if you enjoy the arts and partying and drinking. It is very good for entertainment. Lots of young people from all over the world (maybe not as cosmopolitan as London, but getting there).

Ray51

Canada :
( well , I refer mostly to Ontario here )
NOT good healthcare ( by German/BeNelux standards , anyway ) !
If/when you are finally , after sooo much time wasted , diagnosed with a cancer , it might take so many months to start your treatment , that you might wish you were elsewheres ( I do know some specific cases ! ) or not around at all anymore ;
AND you can't choose to go private in Canada , even if you could afford it ;
AND going to U.S. for such is a financial suicide , anyway !
Eating out is usually either really no fun , or frightfully overpriced ; don't even think of drinking anything half-decent !
My 2 EUrocents' worth , from experience/s...cheers !

Maria_747

Assanah and Ray51

Cheers for your experiences, its very interesting. Ray, I will take note about the health service Ontario when I get there. I thought eating out was cheap in Toronto, I don't mean downtown but places like Mississauga etc.
I will try and stay for 2 years and then evaluate everything. One thing I will miss though, the easy access to Europe on eurostar, missing my day trips to Brugges and Paris. I wouldn't mind my cousin moving to Munich, then we can all visit her.

hrt2fnd

in comparison to other countries the social structure (including pension system and health care) in Germany is VERY healthy!
I used to live in Germany for quite an extensive time across a couple of cities (Ddorf, Frankfurt, Cologne, Wurzburg) and now live in Toronto. For sure the taxes appear to be lower in Canada but the cost of living is higher. Affordable housing and health care are major issues here. in addition, people are supposed to save for their retirements but most people hardly have any money left as everything here is charged extra. Health care here is free but the service you get is soso. STandard medical coverage in metros is not too bad. But seeing a specialist is horrible (mega waiting lists!). In urgent cases people cross the border to the US to get treatment- even so they have to pay big bucks! there is no private insurance (as in Germany or UK) available - everyone gets the same (who's socialist now???).

Kindergarten and pre-school in toronto (and other places) is costly as well (approx. $1,000/month!). You get far less vacation as in Germany (mostly 10 days/year) but the work load appears a little less though with 9-5 mentality(Canadians are by far not as productive as Germans, Brits, Dutch). going out (dinner/drink) in Toronto appears to me much more expensive than back in Frankfurt. Salaries seem to be lower than in Germany as well (10-20%) but cost of living is a little bit higher. Petrol is much cheaper here than in Europe but in most cases you will have to drive longer distances that your monthly spend will be the same. Talking about regulations - Canada is not the US!!! Canada is (population wise) a very small country with restrictive highly-regluated industries (industry here means resources/raw material such as forestry, mining and oil - you'll hardly find a canadian based international high-tech company). in addition, the market is not as free as in the US. Most industries are highly protected which makes it very hard for foreign companies to get a foot in the door. About 20% of all employees work in Canada work in public services...

Apart from that, Canada is a great country. Highly multicultural (metro areas only - the more rural you go, the more redneck it can get), nice environment with fantastic landscape (depending on where you reside), relatively affordable housing market (compared to UK), relatively stable job-market, relatively strong economy, tim hortons at every corner (takes some time to get used to but then you're addicted to that cheap stuff), quite nice people and sociable people (with some exceptions such as Toronto).
Apart from the TH at every corner, it's not so much different from Germany...

Ray51

Fab post ; I tend to agree with just-about most of it !
As stated elsewhere/s ,
IF I had my youth and health and future hopes/perspectives/expectations again , I'd sooner be in Toronto in the next few hours/ days/nites , come hell or high water , expense & hassle/s be damned , there I'd come to & next : re-start a new , decent , proud , ethical , multi-cultural , dynamic , energising , promising.... Life , with a capital L ... again ;
since , sadly , this is NOT the case anymore and , being already in my 60's , I now , regretfully : have to see to other priorities , ( e.g. good 'n'cheapo health-care , general well-being , provision of services assorted , daily civilisation available nearby/ies , choice of goods & services on offer and affordable ....) and so : I can't help but to rather vouch for Germany , Austria , NL , some others....
....and , as in my very specific case : this much underrated , usually unloved , currently doubtful : this odd , strange : The Kingdom of Belgium !
There's a Lesson to be learned in many a place and many a situation , welcome or not !? , i.e. , IF you care to be open-minded and look out for one/s !!!
Cheers !
R.

Assanah

[QUOTE=hrt2fnd;9155126]in comparison to other countries the social structure (including pension system and health care) in Germany is VERY healthy!
QUOTE]

I don't know Canada. The German pension system might be better than the Canadian but to say that the German pension system is healthy is not correct. Sorry about this but there is no social wonderland in Germany. We have rapidly raising numbers of very poor penioners. I see them looking in the trash cans for deposit bottles. We have rapidly raising numbers of penioners working in odd jobs. Please stop telling people that the German pension system is in good shape. Our government and ngo's are struggling to fight this myth and to get people to start saving as early as possible to avoid poverty in old age.

Novocastrian

I've lived in Canada for 18 years, after living in Germany for eight years before that. Most "middle-class" folk here have some sort of private pension, but for those who don't (the majority) there is the Canada Pension Plan currently worth $C 11,520 pa (if you've worked a full term). If that's your only income the Guaranteed Income Plan and Old Age Security kick in and bring that up to just over $C20K. This all starts at age 65.

Oh, and we have a free at point of use health care system and no charges on prescriptions after retirement.

How does that compare to Germany today?

Edited to add: 1C$ is about 65 euro cents but of course varies.

hrt2fnd

[QUOTE=Assanah;9155568] wer lesen kann ist klar im vorteil....
Look carefully what I wrote: "in COMPARISON to other countries..."!!!
you hardly will find a developed country these days that is not struggling from an aging population and a quite tied social system depending on generated GDP. Look across Europe or Asia: countries like Italy, Japan, Korea and even China facing exactly the same problem. However, Germany isn't doing that bad compared to other countries!

Go abroad start a life and I guarantee you that you'll appreciate the German system in one or another way. the grass isnt always greener - you need to bring your spade to look under the surface....

Ray51

Somebody , somewhere , somewhat on this thread seems to have gone Frightfully Wrong !?
I go/drive Germany frequently : Duesseldorf, Aachen , Koeln , Mannheim , Frankfurt , Karlsruhe , Saarbruecken down to Muenchen , then via Salzburg , further ( into clean , green , unspoilt , cute-st Slovenia , e.g. ) ;
I often & gladly sleep over in VaderLand , eat there a lot and generally : have a good time , which I usually much enjoy !
The majority of locals/natives , plus many , many of the GastArbeiter
( i.e. Bosnians , Croats , Serbs , Kosovars , even the odd Greeks , Turks and Spaniards ) happen to be , to my experienced , 60+ yrs' old mind : and actually ARE some of THE nicest , politest , most-obliging , friendliest , correct-est , fair people you'd find anywhere on this our here planet ( and I seriously mean this ! ) !
Value for money ( as in "apples for apples" , now , O.K. ? ) ?
Great !
As is the general , well-qualified level of service and the quality , usually offered !
( To which , the likes of Dixons/Curry's/CarpetWorld , Telephone Warehouse , Sainsbury's , Asdas , dry-cleaner-shops , tire or car dealerships and zillion of other chain-stores , bank-branches , insurance brokers , other so-called "services" providers , all over our ignorant , ill-educated U.K. : could Never Ever even pretend to try to aspire to ! )

Ne'er a recent , nor ancient , bad experience ( from Germany , ! ) , as far as my memories , ( i.e. ever-depleting brain , then the currently playing-up PC , phone etc. ) can and do reach !!!

And , while we are at this thematic issue :
La Belle France , also , has improved , helluvalot , these recent days/months/years !
Be it 'cause of seriously bad recession biting there , the influence of the EU , the ongoing reconciliation with the Anglo-Saxon world , her Majesty Carla Bruni , National Front , Mylene Farmer , all the most beautiful and feminine of all of the world's actresses ...who knows ?
All I can report ( and I do go there a lot and regularly , be it Lille , Dunkerque/Calais , Paris , Bretagne , Normandy , Lyon and southerly into Provence , Toulouse , Languedoc , wherever : the hotels , the resto's and cafe's , the service/s and choices on every step , the attitudes , the ( N.B. lack of !!!) usual , previously known as "French" arrogance and rudeness , the willingness to assist in Anglais , even : all have become so very muuuuch better , it's both unbelievable and indescribable , in a short thread-posting , like this 'un !
The one awful thing that remains there inescapably , nevertheless : Les Banlieus , those awful Moscow-like concrete , much-outdated , uggliest of suburbia , outside most main cities , graffitti-ruined and occupied by dangerous streets'-occupying Algerians and similar mobs/ters , with all their broken , pot-holed streets littered with broken-down , broken-into , burnt-down shiiiite-once-were-cars , heaps of stinking ugggly-est rubbish on every step'n'corner thereof , nil respect nor regard for you
( nor for your health/wellbeing/pocket/jacket/watch/phone/anything held-carried/wallet/life , ultimately ?! )
from those suspicious-appearing , knife-bearing hoodlums , mostly attired in L.A. imitation hooded gear...do avoid getting there , at all cost , or :
do take those such , intriguing yet serious , risks yourself , at your own peril !
Hey , this was my brief message to the World at large , this warm , grey a.m. , from La Capitale of EU-ro biggotry , of that grossly over-valued , over-talked into over-strengths EUro-currency and of seemingly-unlimited lies , misrepresentations , manipulations , crooked deals , high-scale misappropriations of funds ands and Macchiaveli-isms de-luxe , see ?
Cheers , to ya all ,
R.

Assanah

[QUOTE=hrt2fnd;9157385] Well, I used to think that the German system is great until I lived abroad and really got to know other ways.

Assanah

At the moment there is something called a "Eckrente". It is the amount you would get if you'd worked 45 years fulltime and earned average wages. In the moment that is 1.224 Euro/month in the West and 1086 Euro/month in the East. In reality of course, most people don't work for 45 years (education time, children, unemployment etc, pp.). The actual average pension of all pensioners West is 950 for men and 485 for women and in the East it is 999 for men and 676 for women.
If you like we can take a peek at the future: they are predicting that in 20 years or so the payments will be substantially lower than today (that is mainly because of the very low birthrate).

Oh, and I forgot as a pensioner you still have to pay your health insurance premium and long term care insurance permium and since 2005 income tax.