luckycarrot

Hello there,
I wondered if anyone might be able to help me please. My oh and I are looking to locate to France next year and I'm keen to understand what work opportunities there might be. In England I work as a primary school teacher and I also teach English to foreign students. I'm working on my French but I'm not good enough to work in the language. My understanding is that I could work in an international school (not many jobs, I realise), private tutor out of school hours, teach adults privately one-on-one or perhaps work in a primary school teaching English (would love that but not sure how much work there would be and if I need to be string in fresh). My other idea is to set up a business - an English club where children can come after school, weekends, holidays to learn English creatively eg through cooking, art and craft, songs, drama workshops etc Or another business idea is to run a multi-sensory baby class in English but I don't know how popular that would be?? I get the impression there aren't many baby groups compared to in England and that mums tend to go back to work after just a few months and employ child care? If anybody would be willing to help me out I'd really appreciate it. If I knew what there might be a market for, I could be spending time planning material, writing song etc in preparation. Thank you in advance,

Sarah

cyrian

Hello Sarah,
Welcome to the forum.
We had someone recently who was employed by an agency but she didn't realize that there was no agency work during school holidays i.e. no money.
The jobs market is more difficult in France than in the UK.
Many people are employed on short fixed-term contracts (CDD) and at the end of the contract they are looking for work again.
Another consideration is healthcare e.g. suddenly rushed to hospital etc.
Both you and your OH would have to be in work to be eligible for the french healthcare system.
The third point that I have is accommodation.
Would you intend to buy or rent?
If you want to rent then you have to show proof of income of 3 or 4 times the rent or provide a (french) guarantor.
With respect to starting a business, it is not like the UK where you just inform HMRC and if appropriate register for VAT.
In France, you have to create a business structure and have the required certificates and appropriate insurance.
Once you have done that then depending on the business structure employed, you have to pay social charges (NIC) at a far higher level than in the UK.
Basically, you need a far higher turnover in France to achieve the same standard of living in the UK.
Others will come along and expand on the above.
Good luck

EuroTrash

Hello Carrot, welcome to the forum

As you'll appreciate, work opportunities depend a lot on whereabouts you plan to live. Paris and other big cities will offer more openings than the deepest darkest ruralest sparsely populated areas.

It's unlikely you'd find any kind of paid work in a state school without French teaching qualifications - you wouldn't be able to teach as such; you may be able to work in a supporting role but often there's no shortage of volunteers who are happy do that without pay. I believe that in theory you could work in the private sector if you're lucky (your name says you are) but there is competition and if your French is wobbly, that won't help you. If there happens to be an international school near you where teaching is done in English, obviously that would be your best bet, but there aren't very many in France.

Certainly you could offer private English tuition for children and adults, again it depends on whether you live in city or in the country how easy it will be to find students. There is a national scheme through which your clients can "employ" you and pay social security contributions on your wages, but it would also be a good idea to set up a business, probably a "micro entreprise" Portail officiel des auto-entrepreneurs, for those students that don't want to use this scheme (you can't work for yourself in France unless you have a registered business because your clients could be fined for paying an unregistered worker). Teaching English via Skype is also a possibility, again you would need to be registered. There are also state-accredited training organisations who need trainers all over France for one-to-one missions involving say 12 hours of tuition over 2 months (France is very good on workplace training; every employee has a right to X hours of individual training every year, paid for by the State, and quite a lot of them want to brush up their English so there is a constant need for trainers).
I'm not sure what you mean by
The English Club idea is appealing but the paperwork involved in setting this up could be horrendous unless you have suitable premises lined up. It would be sad to jump through all the hoops, getting all the permissions and certificates and putting money into it, and then for it not to work. Maybe something to think about when you've been here for a while and have a better feel for what would be involved on the business side and what your potential market would be. Unfortunately in France you can't just decide to do something, when it involves money changing hands; everything has to be officially registered and all the regulations have to be complied with.

Baby classes, again, maybe in a city. Hard to see it catching on in a village.

Hope this helps, bonne chance

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the forum!
I'd add to the good advice above that, from personal experience, if you're hoping to teach/coach French children, you need to know French Grammar in order to be able to explain English Grammar in terms that they understand. They are masters of French Grammatical Analysis by the end of Primaire...
I coached my daughters' friends for several years from 1st year Secondary and could explain what their teachers didn't have time to explain in class. At Primary level, the class teachers teach them English and in our local (rural) Primaire, an "intervenante" comes for English-after-school once a week for children whose parents can't pick them up when classes are over. It's more like "playtime" in English...
Can't advise re the potential success of setting up "English Clubs", you'd need to live in an area with enough young families (i.e. not rural), but the French rules and regulations are very strict as far as children are concerned. You'd have to research carefully.
On the whole, unless your OH has an adequate regular income, I don't think you'd be earning enough to make a living after you've paid all the social contributions and other dues for your business. And there's the question mentioned above re renting - French landlords require proof that your regular monthly income is 3-4 times the rent.
If we don't sound very positive, it's because we're realistic and it's best that you know the pitfalls before you take the plunge. Fore-warned is fore-armed!

EuroTrash

As DMU says, if you have to earn your daily bread your OH would need a regular income. Private tuition tends to start slow and with a fair wind it will snowball, but for the first year at least you would be very lucky to earn enough for one person to live on comfortably, let alone two people.

The reality is that many intelligent, well-qualified Brits who have left a good career in the UK to move to France, end up extremely thankful if they manage to get a job as a supermarket cashier. You need to have strong reasons for wanting to be in France, because for most incoming Brits there's a price to be paid in terms of earning power and career potential. Personally I love it here and you don't need loadsa money to be happy, but you do need enough money because worrying about bills is depressing. Been there done that - and yes, I would have leapt at a chance of working as a cashier or delivering parcels or even cleaning toilets, but there weren't no jobs to be had. (Ironically, I did eventually, by complete fluke, land a good position teaching English for a French training organisation, which wasn't at all what I'd ever wanted to do and isn't what I do now, but that's what saved my life!)

luckycarrot

Thank you so much everyone for your fast and thorough responses. Gosh I knew it would be hard but not that hard! The picture seems somewhat bleak! My oh has an income stream from uk properties and we're hoping to buy a small place outright so we're not totally dependent on me getting work. Also I have a baby and so wouldn't really be in the job market for a while yet. However the thought of making a move to France in the knowledge I might not work is hard to stomach. It's important to me that I contribute and have a sense of purpose. It sounds like the more likely possibilities are private English lessons or Skype lessons both of which don't seem very stable /long term. How about nanny opportunities? Or child minding? Perhaps parents would like their little ones submersed in the English language?! Thank you so much again, your advice, information and realism are appreciated.

Sarah

EuroTrash

Have you got a particular region in mind?

Opportunities do vary a lot region to region. For instance there are parts of Dordogneshire that are magnets for expats so you might find you can find enough expat families there to support a project that would appeal to British families (though relying totally on expat customers isn't ideal, they are notoriously fickle).

I believe you need a recognised French qualification to be a childminder as such.

It's not impossible by any means but you do need to be persistent, and eventually you will be in the right place with the right things to offer at the right time. May I suggest that the best advance preparation would be to work on bringing your French up to the mark, because that's what's likely to hamper your chances most of all.

Also, make sure you understand how healthcare works for EU 'inactifs' living in France and the costs involved, and what taxes you're likely to have to pay here. Rental income from the UK is taxable in the UK, but the question of whether or not France can levy CSG on it is an ongoing debate, I believe they've moved the goalposts again this year.

In the UK, property is expensive and healthcare is cheap. In France it's the other way round. So for most people, the cost of living works out pretty much the same. You don't say why you want to move to France, but if one of the reasons is that you're hoping it'll work out a lot cheaper, do the sums very carefully. (Also, child allowance only kicks in with the second child here, although I think there are certain allowances you get for one child.)

But... IMHO France can be a great place to bring up kids and enjoy life as a family.

dmu

If you look after other children at your home, you'd have to register with the "Conseil Général" of your Département as an "Assistante Maternelle", and one of the conditions is that you must speak French. There's a limit to the number of children and, as you'll have your own baby to look after, you'd have that much less income.
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...vosdroits/F798
gives info about this profession.
If you look after children at their home, firstly I'm not sure that the family would appreciate your own baby going along too! You'd likewise have to be registered in some sort of business structure in order to pay contributions into the healthcare system.
I may be wrong but, even if you yourself get into the French healthcare system by setting up a business structure, your OH would have to apply for the "PUMA" coverage and, until he's eligible, he'd have to take out private healthcare insurance. You, too, if you aren't registered. Someone more in the know will come along to explain better.
Sorry to put the damper on your ideas, but France is the embodiment of bureaucracy and, as I said, everything concerning children is strictly regulated.

luckycarrot

Thank you so much for your thorough and informative response, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. Yes it does appear harder over there than in England, I guess I'll need to seriously brush up my French skills. This seems like a brilliant forum with lots of knowledge flying around. Thank you,

Sarah

luckycarrot

Sorry I've lost the plot on who I've replied to and im struggling on my iPhone! But can I say a big thank you to everyone who has made comments on this thread. I've learned more in here in the last day than I could find anywhere else! What a great bunch of people, thank you so much for your time. I did realise it was difficult to find work but a recent trip to see acquaintances in Bordeaux (which we plan to live in or near) left me feeling positive that there would be some good opportunities to teach English. So I adopted a rather more positive outlook based on that. My oh is very encouraging and says, like someone on this thread, that once we get over there and see what's what and get involved in things, opportunities will arise. Unfortunately I'm the type of person that needs reassurance there will be something! Presumably there might be a demand for English lessons or club or holiday sessions of some description in such a big place and I'm guessing that even though setting up a business is hard, it's not impossible???? Does anyone have experience of this? Someone also suggested Skype which is interesting - do you mean set up an Internet business teaching students world wide? I guess an Internet business can be taken to any country but not sure I'm quite resourceful enough.
Again, thank you, all comments are so greatly appreciated.

Sarah

cyrian

Hello Sarah,
Doing any sort of work would need to set up a business structure - even working on the phone or on the internet.
The problems described above apply to the french also.
France is a difficult place to set up a business.
Small businesses like bakers or restaurants are not allowed to open 7 days a week and the 35-hour working week is imposed on workers even if they want to work more and earn more money.
I had a discussion with a french small business owner and he said that if he was younger that he would leave France.
We just do not appreciate the relative freedom we have in the UK.
Good luck

luckycarrot

Wow! That's amazing not being able to work harder and earn more money! My oh would say that's a good thing though, he says I need to chill out more!! Hes very hung Ho and just says opportunities will arise when we get there hmmm ... we're in an OK position financially it's just a really want to know I can work as I don't like sponging! Thanks again, all very interesting )

dmu

As they say in France, it's urgent to wait! Concentrate on your baby and settling in, and you'll see what opportunities there are later. Let yourself be pampered as an at-home mother, for a while!

EuroTrash

There will be more opportunities in Bordeaux than in many places I would think. You hadn't said where you were planning on living, so the advice had to be caution based on the possibility of you moving to the middle of nowhere, as many Brits do, then they complain they can't find work. Well no, but the same would apply if you move to Cornwall.

Setting up a business needn't be at all difficult. Check out the link about micro entreprise in post no.3, that's the simplest business structure. It's not suitable for business with high overheads and/or high turnover but for private tuition it should work fine. Once you've registered, which you can do online, it's basically a matter of keeping on top of your admin, quarterly declarations etc.

The only problem with Skype is finding enough students. Yes you can teach worldwide - but so can everyone, and English-speakers living in low-cost countries can offer lessons via Skype at a fraction of the rates you would need to charge to be sustainable in France.

I understand you want reassurance but really there can't be any upfront guarantees, short of finding yourself a job before you commit to the move. Which would probably involve being on the spot. C'est la vie !

EuroTrash

I think that's oversimplifying it a bit but yes, the system is set up to discourage longer working hours.
Mind you when you say "imposed on workers" - look at all the fuss there was over the loi du travail earlier this year, when workers took to the streets at the idea of being expected to work longer hours...
Basically it comes down to the meaning of liff doesn't it. France sees work as part of the social fabric - you work in order to contribute to society, ie providing a useful service and making a financial contribution to support the social security system for everyone's benefit, and to make France a good place to live in for everyone. You run a business in order to contribute to society on a larger scale, ie providing a useful service, making a financial contribution to the social security system etc, and also creating employment so that other people can do the same. The UK sees employment as a way of earning money for yourself, and running a business as a way of making money for the shareholders.
Yes I know that's another gross over-simplification, and the times they are a-changing, but still it all has to be seen in context. France and the UK are poles apart in their views.